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1960 rambler classic 196 smokes on start up

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 5:56am
I'm not sure the term "broaching" is correct, but there is a process they used to use that raised the surface area by making small indentations or cuts in the surface of the inside of the guide. The tool bit into the guide surface when turned, raising small metal dimples, then retracted when turned the opposite way. Then it was reamed to size. So you end up with no more than 50% of surface area than the original guide. Stands to reason it won't last but half as long, usually less than that, but back in the day it would last as long as the rest of the engine. Today it's just about the same to replace the guides, and I don't think anyone does that any more.

If you send the head to a shop to have it rebuilt (new guides and seas cut... and get those positive seals installed on top of hte guides!) have it checked for cracks and trueness (flatness) FIRST. Some shops will suggest that for an old head, some won't. Not much point in putting a lot of money in a badly cracked head. It will run just fine with a few fine cracks, at least until it's run hot again, but it would be time to start looking for a good head or contemplating a swap to a newer motor. The early 199/232 will bolt in without too much work, unless you have a 58-63 American. Engine bay just too short in those.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amc67rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 9:34am
Knerling the guides . If the guides are really bad have them replaced.

Edited by amc67rogue - Apr/21/2017 at 9:37am
Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 10:35am
Yeah I remember knurling from high school where we used to put a pattern on thumbscrews or similar things in the lathe.

I agree that the head is probably ready for rework. It would be a relatively cheap fix and give the engine a few more years of good service. Having valve guides replaced would also eliminate the possibility of old ones disintegrating and clogging up the screen. 

Another question; how big (wide) are new valve guides and are they already cut for the new seals? 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote andyleonard Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 4:33pm
No, the guides are removable at home with a valve guide drift and a hammer. New 196 OHV guides are $2 each from Egge and go in with the same tool you used to get the old ones out. Put the new guides in the freezer overnight to shrink them a little. Easy job. Then relap the valves to make sure everything's centered. Cutting the new (or old) guides for the little teflon seals is still a good idea. The original style rubber seals aren't worth much.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 5:12pm
That's it!! Knurling!! But on the inside it's tougher to do than on the outside...
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amc67rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/21/2017 at 7:38pm
Well if there removable with a drift punch as andyleonard says why bother with Knurling.
Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 60ramblerclassic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2017 at 12:26pm
Ok well I've decided to have the engine, trans, torque tube, and rear end rebuilt. Pretty much full mechanical restoration.

It has developed a crazy vibration between 1,2nd gear. It started with a squeak at low speed. Then a vibrating at high speed, around 70moh. It used to be super smooth. It's nearly undriveable now. Sad.

It's always shifted hard from N to D2 and R. Does anyone have an idea of what the vibration could be? It's really rough. And at the same time, all the vibration goes away when driving, when I put it in neutral.

I'd like to diagnose it before I pull everything out.

I can post a video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/29/2017 at 4:08pm
I broke a crank in a Ford 223 and limped it home with a lot of vibration. It completely let go the next day. That is not likely to happen with a 196 because of its forged crank.

The flex plate coupling between the engine and torque converter could be ready to let go.

Maybe there is something wrong with the front pump in the transmission.

The u-joint at the front of the torque tube could be failing but you'd probably feel that when shifting between forward and reverse.

What ever it is it will probably become quite evident when you dismantle the components from each other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2017 at 6:19am
You said the vibration goes away when in neutral. Is that with the car still moving?

The most likely culprit is the flex plate between the engine and torque converter. The originals are a hardened steel and develop cracks over time. It's a simple steel plate -- you can have one mode at a local machine shop. Many double a plain steel.

The torque tube on the six cylinder car rarely dives any trouble. The u-joint may be worn (there is only one in front), and the center bearing could go bad, but neither of those usually give any trouble. They are sealed inside the tube away from dust and dirt. I've pulled u-joints with over 100K miles that were tight as new, and never had a center bearing go bad. But both could. The shaft should pull out with the bearing from the front of the tube once it is off the car.

Could be an internal transmission issue. Yours should have a vacuum modulator and an electric kickdown. If the vacuum line was off or the modulator diaphragm bad that could lead to hard shifting. The vac modulator reduces pressure at high vacuum (low engine speeds). if it's not working that will cause hard shifts between N/P and any moving gear as internal pressure would be higher than it should be.
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 60ramblerclassic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2017 at 2:07pm
Thanks guys, I have two threads open.

Yes, the vibration stops (while driving) the moment you put the car in N. Lilly culprit seems to be the u-joint and bushing at the front of the torque tube. So I'm going to drop the t-bone and take a look!

It started with a squeak at low speed and now it's at a full shake. I first thought it was torque tube related because the shake feels like something out of balance. I had a 65 chevelle that I did a full drive train swap on that had a bad vibration at a certain speed and it turned out that the drive line was off balance and a u joint was going out, it reminds me of that feeling.....just worse.
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