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1960 rambler classic 196 smokes on start up |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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Posted: Jun/16/2017 at 10:16pm |
it's possible that at that age, there's a bit of oil seeping down the valve stems while it sits, which burns off when it starts. at 75,000 miles and however many years it's been, that would be completely normal. in a 20xx car that would be a problem, but in old design engines having a bit of oil in the guides is not a bad thing. if this is the case it's nothing needing fixing or attention.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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Not really. It's running rich for a second or so from the extra fuel squirted in when you pump it. Just once to the floor to set the choke and it should start right up. And a little puff of smoke won't hurt -- is normal really. Black smoke would indicate oil burning.
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Frank Swygert
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CornFed Rebel
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/07/2017 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 43 |
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My 1969 232 is having a similar issue, but it only blows a white-ish/grey cloud of smoke if I pump the accelerator once before starting to set the choke. It runs great otherwise, with no smoke whatsoever. It doesn't use any oil or antifreeze. If I don't pump the accelerator to set the choke before starting, it doesn't blow smoke. Is this something I need to be concerned about?
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60ramblerclassic
AMC Fan Joined: May/16/2013 Location: Orcutt CA Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks guys, I have two threads open.
Yes, the vibration stops (while driving) the moment you put the car in N. Lilly culprit seems to be the u-joint and bushing at the front of the torque tube. So I'm going to drop the t-bone and take a look! It started with a squeak at low speed and now it's at a full shake. I first thought it was torque tube related because the shake feels like something out of balance. I had a 65 chevelle that I did a full drive train swap on that had a bad vibration at a certain speed and it turned out that the drive line was off balance and a u joint was going out, it reminds me of that feeling.....just worse. |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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You said the vibration goes away when in neutral. Is that with the car still moving?
The most likely culprit is the flex plate between the engine and torque converter. The originals are a hardened steel and develop cracks over time. It's a simple steel plate -- you can have one mode at a local machine shop. Many double a plain steel. The torque tube on the six cylinder car rarely dives any trouble. The u-joint may be worn (there is only one in front), and the center bearing could go bad, but neither of those usually give any trouble. They are sealed inside the tube away from dust and dirt. I've pulled u-joints with over 100K miles that were tight as new, and never had a center bearing go bad. But both could. The shaft should pull out with the bearing from the front of the tube once it is off the car. Could be an internal transmission issue. Yours should have a vacuum modulator and an electric kickdown. If the vacuum line was off or the modulator diaphragm bad that could lead to hard shifting. The vac modulator reduces pressure at high vacuum (low engine speeds). if it's not working that will cause hard shifts between N/P and any moving gear as internal pressure would be higher than it should be. |
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Frank Swygert
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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I broke a crank in a Ford 223 and limped it home with a lot of vibration. It completely let go the next day. That is not likely to happen with a 196 because of its forged crank.
The flex plate coupling between the engine and torque converter could be ready to let go. Maybe there is something wrong with the front pump in the transmission. The u-joint at the front of the torque tube could be failing but you'd probably feel that when shifting between forward and reverse. What ever it is it will probably become quite evident when you dismantle the components from each other. |
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60ramblerclassic
AMC Fan Joined: May/16/2013 Location: Orcutt CA Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Ok well I've decided to have the engine, trans, torque tube, and rear end rebuilt. Pretty much full mechanical restoration.
It has developed a crazy vibration between 1,2nd gear. It started with a squeak at low speed. Then a vibrating at high speed, around 70moh. It used to be super smooth. It's nearly undriveable now. Sad. It's always shifted hard from N to D2 and R. Does anyone have an idea of what the vibration could be? It's really rough. And at the same time, all the vibration goes away when driving, when I put it in neutral. I'd like to diagnose it before I pull everything out. I can post a video. |
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amc67rogue
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/05/2008 Location: Phx. AZ. Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Well if there removable with a drift punch as andyleonard says why bother with Knurling.
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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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That's it!! Knurling!! But on the inside it's tougher to do than on the outside...
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Frank Swygert
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andyleonard
AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/10/2016 Location: 90290 Status: Offline Points: 138 |
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No, the guides are removable at home with a valve guide drift and a hammer. New 196 OHV guides are $2 each from Egge and go in with the same tool you used to get the old ones out. Put the new guides in the freezer overnight to shrink them a little. Easy job. Then relap the valves to make sure everything's centered. Cutting the new (or old) guides for the little teflon seals is still a good idea. The original style rubber seals aren't worth much.
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