Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
Putting 80s 258 2 barrel intake on 76 engine - wha |
Post Reply | Page <12345> |
Author | |
amcfool1
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/18/2011 Location: roanoke va Status: Offline Points: 1071 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi, I just did what the OP is considering, on a 77 Hornet AMX, not a Pacer, but the idea is the same. I put in "late' model AMC intake/exhaust manifolds (from an 82 Eagle) onto the 77 258, which of course had the "joined" cast iron ones. Both were/are 2bbl. This is why:
1) original exhaust manifold had a BAD exhaust leak, blown out gasket, so had to come out anyway. 2) original manifolds were rather ugly, nothing but rust colour, so would have to be refinished, blasted/painted, etc, and one stripped out thread for exhaust pipe stud to be repaired. 3) Weight, not in the "performance" sense, but lifting those two joined cast iron monsters out of the engine bay was a piece of work! (I'm not getting any younger!). Much easier installing/dealing with separate manifolds, and the aluminum intake is light as a feather! 4)Exhaust is in the same location, no more donut gasket to deal with. 5)Aluminum intake has three threaded ports for CTO, or aftermarket temp gauges or whatever. Options! 6)better flowing (I'm told) exhaust manifold, hey, 2 or 3 hp is nothing to sneeze at! 7)still an all AMC setup, best they had for the 258. 8) Looks good! Runs good! Bolts up! Is life good or what! ok, still with me? Couple of things to watch out for: 1)Power steering bracket from the cast iron manifold will need to be modified, or better yet get the one from the aluminum manifold motors. The original will NOT work as is. 2)Throttle mounting bracket is VERY different, again, get the one from the alum. motors. 3)Choke will have to be switched to electric, or to stay old school, get an aftermarket heat choke kit, which I did. Yes!, still available out there. 4)Carb throttle rod may need to be replaced, again, with the late model one. 5)heat stove from the cast iron exhaust manifold will not work on the divorced manifold, and is probably rusted to heck anyway. This was, for me, the hardest piece to find, a good condition 81+ heat stove, but I did! ( I know, Uncljohn, you don't need these, but i do! :) So, you see, a "simple" bolt on can have it's challenges. Mr mantonas, good luck, another option not discussed here, is to replace the old 1bbl cast iron manifold with a cast iron 2bbl manifold, which would take most of the above issues out of the picture. Or, rebuild the YF, and motor on into the sunset! good luck, gz
|
|
george z
|
|
uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
[QUOTE)
This was, for me, the hardest piece to find, a good condition 81+ heat stove, but I did! ( I know, Uncljohn, you don't need these, but i do! [/QUOTE] Yup, you are right, I don't need one of those. But to be honest by in large my engine modifications both I-6 and V8 were on cars driven when the weather was nice, by in large? Any time it was above freezing (32 F) But in stalling and intake on a V8 that blocks off the exhaust cross over is the same as installing an intake on an I-6 the eliminates that too. Granted and it has to be recognized. If the weather is a bit on the cool side both types of engines can become a cold blooded suckers until the warm up. I was not aware of the power steering bracket problem and as to carburetor linkage with and with out involving transmission linkage is resolved by using cable operated accelerator linkage along with the same for automatic transmissions. The automatic transmission linkage from an AMC car that used that linkage can be salvaged from Jeep Cherokee's that still used the 258 and the 998 or 904 and I think early 4.0 engine applications. Maybe even later I have lost track of them. Or purchasing from LOKAR . |
|
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
|
amcfool1
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/18/2011 Location: roanoke va Status: Offline Points: 1071 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
yes, sir, anything is doable, point being, for the OP. that even a "simple" bolt on part, has issues that need to be addressed. There is no free lunch. One needs to do some homework before diving in to reengineer a car. I am by no means an expert, such as you or Mr. Farna, but I have been around long enough, and seen enough cars, mostly AMCs, that have been "improved" to the point of undrivability. Hey, they're ALL bulletproof if they never leave the shop!
Again, just trying to make the OP aware of what is involved. Imo, he would be better of just rebuilding his YF, kit is about $25., and have no fabrication issues or real down time on the car. Having said that, a Pacer was/is a heavy car, and any kind of power gain is a good thing. thank you, gz
|
|
george z
|
|
mantonas
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/21/2015 Location: Knoxville, TN Status: Offline Points: 196 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Believe it or not I'm still not done with this. I stopped working on it for most of the winter and then had to fix a problem I had (which I caused) with the motor mounts. I finally got that straightened out and just began piddling around with the manifolds again a few weeks ago.
That damn power steering bracket issue has jumped up and bit me in the rear end but good. The rear bracket would not clear the newer style exhaust manifold. I found one on eBay that looked like it would clear, and I bought it for a painfully high amount of money, and it did clear. Unfortunately, it does not let the pump rotate the way it needs to in order to loosen and tighten the belt. I'm stumped now. I'm seriously considering going back to the one barrel setup and maybe selling all this two barrel stuff. The problem is I think my original manifolds are unusable. Poking around on eBay it looks like I can get a brand new exhaust manifold and a good used intake, but they're not cheap. I am so sick of messing with this though I just might do it. I know this car is not going to ever be a performance machine, but by god I just want to drive it one day! The only thing that's nagging me is that I might just be one bracket away from getting this to work; the aluminum two-piece bracket that fits around the pump itself; maybe there's one that will work. Does anyone know if this is true?
|
|
1972 AMC Javelin SST
1973 AMC Ambassador 401 1975 AMC Pacer D/L 1976 AMC Pacer X 1976 AMC Matador sedan 1978 AMC Pacer V8 coupe 1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer |
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
You just about have to use the late model parts with the late model intake. The late model timing cover can even be adapted, but it uses several enlarged holes for larger studs to mount accessories. You might have to drill one or more holes larger and tap for the larger stud to use the late model PS bracket. I would do that on the original to your motor timing cover if possible rather than try to adapt a 74+. 74 is when the timing cover and accessory mounts changed. Brackets changed again with the mid 80+ aluminum intake (as you have discovered!). The PS bracket for that intake should work, but you may have some alignment issues.
|
|
Frank Swygert
|
|
amcfool1
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/18/2011 Location: roanoke va Status: Offline Points: 1071 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
hey, don't give up, nothing but a thing! if you want an old school CAST IRON 2bbl manifold set, I got one here in Roanoke, VA, free, just come and get it, of a 77 Hornet. thanks, gz
|
|
george z
|
|
mantonas
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/21/2015 Location: Knoxville, TN Status: Offline Points: 196 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
That is very generous of you! I just may take you up on it. Man, I just drove past Roanoke TWICE last weekend, isn't that how life works!.
|
|
1972 AMC Javelin SST
1973 AMC Ambassador 401 1975 AMC Pacer D/L 1976 AMC Pacer X 1976 AMC Matador sedan 1978 AMC Pacer V8 coupe 1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer |
|
mantonas
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/21/2015 Location: Knoxville, TN Status: Offline Points: 196 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So I spent a lot of time looking at underhood photos of 80s AMCs and Jeep CJs, and doing searches on eBay, and I think I found the bracket I need. It's the rear aluminum bracket that connects directly to the power steering pump. It's hard to explain, but the curved slot that allows the pump to rotate so as to loosen or tighten the belt has been "clearanced" to give it room to swing. This is necessary because the steel bracket that it attaches to (which I already purchased) has a different shape to clear the newer style exhaust manifold. On this bracket, the point where the through bolt that is the axis of rotation of the pump connects to it is really close to the edge, so the other swinging bracket needs clearance.
I don't know if this is going to work, but I'm going to put in some eBay links to help explain this. Here is a link to a bracket on eBay that I think is the one that I need. Notice the way the grooved slot on the left side has a scalloped upper surface: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/bYcAAOSwTA9X6yNH/s-l1600.jpg Now here is one that I think is like the one I have. Notice the fully built-up edge of the slot on the bottom left of the middle photo: http://www.ebay.com/itm/192163065920 Here are a few complete pump assemblies on eBay with all brackets where if you look at the photos you can see the clearance and how it works: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jeep-cj-wrangler-PS-pump-and-Brackets-amc-258-cu-in-4-2L-76-91-/182574254239?hash=item2a8246089f:g:IHgAAOSwhvFZGNKk&vxp=mtr http://www.ebay.com/itm/401331002589 http://www.ebay.com/itm/112421032182 So I think I have this solved. What I would really like to do is get a part number for this bracket so I can do some more thorough searches for purchasing this part. I think $75 for a bracket or $175 (or more) for a used power steering pump assembly is a little steep; there's gotta be some of these sitting around in a junk yard or somebody's garage. How do I get access to a parts manual for an 80s AMC or Jeep CJ? |
|
1972 AMC Javelin SST
1973 AMC Ambassador 401 1975 AMC Pacer D/L 1976 AMC Pacer X 1976 AMC Matador sedan 1978 AMC Pacer V8 coupe 1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer |
|
mantonas
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/21/2015 Location: Knoxville, TN Status: Offline Points: 196 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Okay, so I just went ahead and bought the bracket on eBay and now everything fits fine!!
I bolted down my 80s BBD 2 barrel carb that I bought on eBay for about 30 bucks, hooked up the fuel line to a gas can, and started it up, and it ran great! I still need to work on the throttle bracket, and I won't know for sure until I put it under load by actually driving it, but it seems as thought the stepper motor might have been left in a decent position for driveability. One issue I have is numerous exhaust leaks from all the plugs in the exhaust manifold for the EGR connection and air injection ports. Access is so limited I might have to temporarily remove the carburetor to get to them to retighten. Oh well.
|
|
1972 AMC Javelin SST
1973 AMC Ambassador 401 1975 AMC Pacer D/L 1976 AMC Pacer X 1976 AMC Matador sedan 1978 AMC Pacer V8 coupe 1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer |
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
There used to be a tin foil like solder sold in auto parts stores. You wrapped it around an electric connection then heated with a lighter. I wonder if that would melt out if you used it like teflon tape on those screws, or seal? Only other thing I can think of is use some red (high temp) RTV on the threads. It's used on exhaust manifold gaskets with success... I've used it in place of a gasket and it didn't blow out even after several years of service. Was used on a six exhaust manifold that came from factory with no gasket, but had minor warping and small exhaust leak when reinstalled. High temp RTV cured it.
|
|
Frank Swygert
|
|
Post Reply | Page <12345> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |