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DIY Intrument panel voltage regulator mod

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Rebel Machine View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel Machine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/03/2016 at 5:25pm
Originally posted by 304-dude 304-dude wrote:

Originally posted by bigbad69 bigbad69 wrote:


It could be 2-3W depending upon the temp and fuel gauge indications. I don't have the numbers with me, but I think it was about 200mA full scale for each gauge. 7Vx400mA all becomes heat.


You are correct about 200ma full scale. I gave myself head room to 250ma.

An loaded linear regulator will be very little in terms of current being consumed. So wattage will be like .10 or less. As the device runs cool and efficient.



Bigbad69 is right about the wattage. Wattage is voltage x current. Look at your regulator, there's about 13.5 volts on it's input and 5 volts on it's output, that's a voltage drop of 8.5 volts. Using your current figure (200 mA) and multipling that times the 8.5 volt drop and you'll have the amount of power being consumed by the regulator itself. 8.5 volts x 200 mA is 1.7 watts.

Since current is constant in a series circuit all the other devices in series with the regulator's output are flowing the same amount. Again, the voltage drop times the current gives power. All the other devices on the 5 volt output are consuming 1 watt (5 volts x 200 mA).

Add the two and you've got the total power consumption, 2.7 watts.

-Steve-


Edited by Rebel Machine - Mar/03/2016 at 5:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/03/2016 at 5:42pm
Quiescent current draw is 5 ma. 5ma x 5v = .025 watts... I was wrong with .01 watts, my mistake. Though I am not sure exactly but there may be some special 7805 ICs that may be even lower, but at lower power rating.

I can and will post my current draw on my modded regulator without load and with a 25 ~ 35 ohm load. Should have both readings within 24 hrs.

Oh, I just realized I didnt mean to sound that I questioned the 2.5 watts during operation. I was stating that the internal operation power draw is less than the thermal oscillating switch. I think I was on the other side of the street with his subject.

Edited by 304-dude - Mar/03/2016 at 5:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/04/2016 at 7:22am
Ok, I am done with my tests and am happy with the out come, here is my readings with my tests...


I used a cheap 15 year old digital multi meter so these are ball park figures.

No load current is 2.2 ma
1/8 of a tank is 114 ma
Full is 200 ma

Both fuel and temp gauges DC resistance are between 13 - 14 ohms.

I will add my findings to my instructional so everything is on one page.

Thanks for everyone's input... I greatly appreciate it, as it keeps me on my toes and puts insight into operation for peeps to follow.

Edited by 304-dude - Mar/04/2016 at 8:25am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony matthews Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/04/2016 at 1:39pm
fed ex arrived three days from ordering so that,s great,fitted the unit to the back of the gauges and nothing happened.I can hear the unit clicking away but no needle, so Ill ask an expert so here we go
 ..When the green resistance wire is connected to the back of the gauge in the green resistance place, and the yellow wire which is live when the ignitions is on (12 volts) if I connect just those two wires the needle moves up to past full . ok ..Now I connect the earth wire to the earth place having checked I had continuity which I did and the needle moves down past empty.
so whats the problem..Discuss
The ohms reading from the sender should be between 20 and 80 appox depending on fuel level ok Iv got enough fuel to give a reading if the thingie worked so i know there should be a reading 
the ohms reading of the wire at the gauge end is approx the same as the sender end of the wire
the powers getting to the gauges,
so what am I missing 
Thank you ...Toni


Edited by tony matthews - Mar/04/2016 at 1:47pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/04/2016 at 1:56pm
Originally posted by tony matthews tony matthews wrote:

fed ex arrived three days from ordering so that,s great,fitted the unit to the back of the gauges and nothing happened.I can hear the unit clicking away but no needle, so Ill ask an expert so here we go
 ..When the green resistance wire is connected to the back of the gauge in the green resistance place, and the yellow wire which is live when the ignitions is on (12 volts) if I connect just those two wires the needle moves up to past full . ok ..Now I connect the earth wire to the earth place having checked I had continuity which I did and the needle moves down past empty.
so whats the problem..Discuss
The ohms reading from the sender should be between 20 and 80 appox depending on fuel level ok Iv got enough fuel to give a reading if the thingie worked so i know there should be a reading 
the ohms reading of the wire at the gauge end is approx the same as the sender end of the wire
the powers getting to the gauges,
so what am I missing 
Thank you ...Toni

He way the gauge works, if resistance is around 78 ohms or below 5 v at the regulator the gauge will show empty, if the resistance is 8 ohms the regulator is stuck at 12v the gauge will be past full.

I would obtain a multi meter, preferably an analog one, but digital will work, though it will not read the voltage at the regulator properly. Ohm the resistance at the wire from the fuel sending unit.

Since I am not familiar with 78 Matador, I have no clue to how the green, yellow and ground wires connect to your gauges. Only a schematic or picture of correctly connected  wires will help. It is possible you crossed some wires... not sure.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lucas660 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/04/2016 at 6:27pm
Tony, do you have a good solid, clean ground connection to the body from  the battery. There should be a strap that runs from the crossmember to the body. It might be something as simple as that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tony matthews Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/05/2016 at 12:16pm
im going to take the tank out and make a hoke in the boot so i dont have to worry about getting the sender out ever again. i believe the ohms from the sender in the tank is 35 ohms thats with whatever fuel is in there. so 35 ohms should bring the needle to approx half way as 80 is empty and 20 is full roughly. so when the sender is out of the tank and the gauge is out of the dash board I can rewire straight from the battery to the back of the unit and see what happens then as i move the sender about. I did notice that the needle will move to the empty position from a place below the empty mark so its trying to work and if i take the earth with and attach it to the unit regulator then the needle move up to past full remove the earth and it drops back to  empty.I can hear the regulator clicking away trying to do its job so right now im at a loss as to the reason why iv tried running earth wires from the battery I tried running power straight to the battery iv even tried taking a wire from the sender unit to the gauge   anyways its cold here in the uk so iv had enough right now for a bit Thanks     Toni
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2016 at 9:08pm
I looked at real time's site, and it seems to be a bit of fluff on what they say is best. Of coarse they are king, but I have only a gripe on how they make comparisons, being so short sided.

The only main fact worth noting is it is better than oem. As for everything else they list is overly one sided. If they would clean up and post facts over their best, fair, poor scale... then I would not place them in the relm of Ebay product hype sales, which have very little weight in my book. Their poor scale rating makes them look cheap in my opinon, as I put my test facts up for all to see. At least with my facts peeps can valadate what will fit their needs and at what cost.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/18/2016 at 11:34pm
i ran a 7805 on my 63 classic for over  decade, zero problems. it really should have a 0.1uF cap tied from output to ground, and general electronic practice is a 22 - 100 uF cap on the input side, but clearly they work as-is. (the output ceramic disc will prevent it from oscillating under certain conditions.)

but the 7805 is very tolerant! if you short the output yeah it'll eventually stress out and die -- dont do that :-) but at $1 each its not a huge problem, and gauge loads are constant and unlikely to be messed with.

assuming the battery is 13V, with output at 5V the chip itself will need to dissipate (13 -5) * current in Amps, watts. i never even checked mine -- installed and forgot about it! at anything moe than a few tens of milliamps constant the 7805 needs a heatsink, but i put mine uder an existing screw in the guage cluster, and that was that.

(at 1 amp draw the 7805 would dissipate (13 - 5) * 1, or 8 watts. Not Good without a heat sink. but the actual load is probably 1/50th that.)

tl;dr it works.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/19/2016 at 4:49am
I did note... not all 7805 IC regulators are built the same. I had 800ma running on a load run, mine did not activly over heat without a heat sink.

Each gauge will consume up to 220ma. But that is with a full tank with boiling hot engine and if equiped wih oil pressure gauge, hitting 70+ psi.

Under real world conditions we are looking at 400ma to 450ma max. So operating at 1/2 the rated wattage for any power condition with electronics has never failed me yet. Again, I over engineer, even with minimal design.

My instructor once said, why would you make an 8bit microcontroller testing circuit, to operatate in a radioactive environment? I said, because the components are available, and you just never know when you'll need such engineering. HA!

Yes, I am aware of an input capacitor, but for the most part, that is with the load capabilies of the source. Most electronics do not make the source stronger than what the output requires. So power sags and fluctuations from a changing load, will not effect output stability. Like you said operational load is very stable.

I recommend and gave a link to an IC that is 2.5amp rated. So even if any one should go run their engine under extrems to see how bad it will melt down, there will not be any issue with 800+ ma causing too much heat.

Thanks for your input and glad you found such simple design worth while and cost effective.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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