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11.5 to 1 on pump gas |
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matty 401
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/06/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 1727 |
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Posted: Apr/03/2015 at 8:59am |
what is the most you can run for compression and still be on pump gas ? was thinking of changing the compression in my Beast 72 Matador 2 door 401 727 trans and 456 gears
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72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door 72 matador 304 grasshopper 68 Rogue 406 93 Cherokee 4.0 5 speed |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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The answer to that question is in part based on the available octane rating of the some what questionable term "Pump Gas"
Here where I live, Premium "Pump Gas" is 91 octane, and with 91 octane 11:1 compression is wishful thinking. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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matty 401
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/06/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 1727 |
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not saying it will be 11.5 to 1 just trying to figure out what i can go to with the current gas we have without going to race fuel car is 8.25 to 1 now
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72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door 72 matador 304 grasshopper 68 Rogue 406 93 Cherokee 4.0 5 speed |
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69AMX364
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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You can run 11:1 on pump gas. Will you enjoy it? No. It would take much more work and money to get it to run good then what you will get out of it. A good friend of mine put together a 440 6 pack engine with 11:1 in the early 80's and after a while he had to confess that it was a mistake and that he should have gone with 10:1 instead for high test gas at that time.
Now if you plan on E85 gas as pump gas then you should be able to easily run even higher, however you could not put anything else in instead, like 91 octane. One of the better things that I did on my 69 AMX is to use a 360 engine from a Wagoneer which will run on 87 and give NO problems at all. I also loved my MSD rev limiter and how that worked with a manual transmission and being driven hard. I loved having a 3000 chip for when someone else might drive the car. |
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69AMX364
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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May I suggest perhaps a better camshaft might be a choice, to get better performance from what you have?
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Traveller
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/26/2011 Location: Idaho Status: Offline Points: 1011 |
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Static compression isn't the issue, dynamic compression is. Chamber and piston design play a huge factor, as does how you set up the quench. Tight quench and a good quench area on the head and piston are more detonation resistant due to mixture motion reducing dead spots in the chamber that are detonation prone.
Dynamic compression is basically computed from the volume remaining in the cylinder when the intake valve hits the seat on the compression stroke. The wilder the cam, the less volume there is in the cylinder since the intake valve closes later. This becomes very important when selecting a cam. If you don't have enough static compression, the dynamic won't be high enough to work with the camshaft. You end up not creating peak cylinder pressures where the cam works best, and you end up with a pig of an engine. Too high a static compression with a small cam, can create too high a cylinder pressure for the fuel and you end up with detonation. It's all about peak cylinder pressure in the RPM range you want the engine to work best at. You need to figure out what you want the engine to do first, before you decide on a static compression ratio since there are way too many factors to just say "use this compression ratio and you won't have problems". A 9:1 engine for the street can be made to run fantastic, and even in hot weather you will probably be able to get away with mid-grade. You'd be surprised what 8.25:1 can do with the right cam and some minor head work. Edited by Traveller - Apr/03/2015 at 10:36am |
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69AMX364
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Well said Traveller.
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SKeown
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/30/2009 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 3085 |
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There are a number of factors that come into play, such as the cam's duration, Quench (piston to head clearance), ignition timing and the pump gas being used. I feel a dynamic CR ratio of 11.5:1 is very risky and feel 10;1 to be a more practical approach in most cases. I run 10.8:1 with a lot of cam duration, aluminum heads,.040 quench and 93 gas. With a similar combination at 11;1 and iron heads I saw evidence of detonation in some cylinders. SKeown
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RAZER
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/14/2014 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Ya but the 8.25:1 in these engines has the piston .035 to .038 down in the whole, and with a .041 to .045 head gasket how does that take advantage of a cam and head work. This is a serious question I really want to know if some of you have made good HP gains on a stock bottom 360 or 401 with the low compression??
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SKeown
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/30/2009 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 3085 |
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It's not unusual for someone addressing detonation by increasing the head gasket thickness only to find it made their situation worse. SKeown
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