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'60 American - engine install |
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alaskajim
AMC Fan Joined: Mar/17/2015 Location: hyrum,ut Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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Posted: Mar/17/2015 at 8:35pm |
Hello out there
I have a very nice 60 american that has an auto trans but no engine. I tried to install a iron ohv 196, but there is not room - Did it have an L head in it? Should I try to go with a Ford 200? I'm not sure I am capable of dealing with the switch to a ford. Any ideas?
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ramblinrev
Moderator Group Joined: Dec/28/2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 11472 |
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Your '60 American could have come with a flat head or an OHV 196. The engine bay is the same size; but there's an upper support that I know is different on '61-63 OHV vs. Flathead; and that might be the issue on yours. A 196 OHV will fit in that bay and will bolt up to the original tranny. But you might have to change or modify that upper (behind the radiator top tank) crossmember.
If you have a good iron 196 OHV you should be able to make it work!
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74 Hornet Hatchback X twins (since 1977)
62 American Convertible (still worth the $50 I spent in 1973!) AMCRC #513, AMO #384 70 AMX 360 4-speed (since 1981) |
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alaskajim
AMC Fan Joined: Mar/17/2015 Location: hyrum,ut Status: Offline Points: 3 |
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you're right about the crossmember being in the way. Since it's welded in, I hadn't considered changing it. But it would give me the room I need. I have a good 196 ohv, so I feel I should use it. I guess I'll try to modify the crossmember and make it work. Thanks for the info.
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RonFrancis
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/30/2014 Location: Coatesville, PA Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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I'm getting ready to do the same swap. My goal is to make it look stock with limited alterations to anything. I have the Lhead and I just bought a 196 OHV from a 62. I know of two issues.
Make sure you have a 196 not a 199 or 232 or larger. It must be a pre-65 motor is the first guide line, after that it is definitely a larger motor. Then I have read that it must have a short water pump. I haven't seen the differences in the pumps so I can't expand on that. Rumor has it that the OHV for a 1960 is actually the same L head block just converted to an OHV. So everything should line up. The exhaust is on a different side so that needs help. Quite a few of the wires are on the opposite side too. Something I learned the hard way, L head motors were built for either auto or stick transmission and can't be converted. The cranks are different. I hope my information is accurate as I have spend quite a bit of time and money gathering parts. I do need a battery box for the right rear location in the engine bay. My box in left front and has to be moved for the OHV. Good luck, if you learn anything special, I'd sure like to hear. Ron |
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RonFrancis
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/30/2014 Location: Coatesville, PA Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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I forgot to mention, I don't think that cross member has to be changed for the right engine. OHV or L head.
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Ron Francis
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rocklandrambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/09/2013 Location: Nanuet, NY Status: Offline Points: 3953 |
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Ron, I believe the shorter water pump had to do with trying to fit a later model 232 into the '64 & '65 Americans. AFAIK, all the 196's have the same water pump.
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Past AMC's
1974 Hornet X (new) 1975 Gremlin X (new) 1964 Classic 660 Cross Country 1965 American 440-H |
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RonFrancis
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/30/2014 Location: Coatesville, PA Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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Good to know, thanks
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Ron Francis
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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The American 196 has a shorter water pump than the big cars. So if the 196 came from a 56-64 Rambler Six (56-60) or Classic it will have a long shaft pump and won't fit without changing the pump. It's true that the 64 American with 232 has a short shaft pump as well so it would fit -- same pump as a 72+ CJ-5, which had a short one to fit that body. CJ-7 got lengthened in front and uses standard AMC pump.
The engine was designed to drop out the bottom on the 58-63 Americans, not come out the top. If you really want to pull it out from the top, take the head and water pump off the OHV. Then you can do it, but it's tight. As long as you have a concrete floor to work on drop it from the bottom. I'd still consider removing the head, or at least the valve cover, rocker shaft, pushrods, and carb. That will significantly reduce engine height. Head gaskets aren't that expensive though. Take hood off, K-brace under engine, then loosen the ends of the drag link (take cotter pin out then use a big screwdriver to turn ends out enough to pop off the tie rods) and drop it. Then connect a cherry picker to the engine and take the front and rear crossmembers loose from the body, leave on engine. Lower engine to the ground. Connect cherry picker to the body with a chain on the bumper mount brackets (that crossmember behind radiator nor the bumper are strong enough to lift car!) and lift the body. Roll the body and cherry picker back over the motor. Reverse to install. On the flat-head six you just take the carb off. Remember to retorque the head of the OHV engine if you don't know when it was last done! They have to be torqued down every 2-3 years or 10-12K miles -- whichever comes first. If not you'll eventually blow the head gasket and run hot, and can crack the old head (which gets pretty hot, and has probably been run hot a couple times in the past). This is normal maintenance on those old motors, but most don't know it and ruin the head. |
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Frank Swygert
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RonFrancis
AMC Apprentice Joined: Nov/30/2014 Location: Coatesville, PA Status: Offline Points: 231 |
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Thank you for that input, I'll keep this info for the 'big day'. I have a 232 from a '68 and just the block and valve cover are too long to fit my 1960. A short pump wouldn't do anything to shrink the engine. In fact as soon as I check the compression, I want to sell that.
One question is what do you think the front of the car weighs when I lift it above the engine? I have a1000 pound hoist off my rafters on a 10 foot ceiling. My plan would be to drop the engine on a dolly and roll it away from the car. Both engines have new carbs so I definitely want to protect them. I hate to "open' the OHV and risk dirt if I can raise the car above the engine which would then be slightly tilted and then straighten it up to install. I also have a tractor with forks to help move the engine around under the car. I plan to add TomJ's extra cooling line to the block to avoid the overheated head problem. I also plan his full flow oil filter system too. I have a freshly rebuilt Auto trans that I tried to put behind the Flathead to use instead of the 62 auto. Hopefully there won't be any issues there. I can't see putting a used trans when I have a fresh one. Thanks again for your help, feel free to throw any more info you might have at anytime. Ron |
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Ron Francis
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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The car weighs less than 2500 lbs WITH the engine and trans. Drop those and you lose about 800 lbs. That leaves 1700 lbs, and you'll only be lifting half of that, so your 1000 lbs hoist will be fine, with a bit of safety factor. I set mine down on a sheet of plywood and drug it out from under the car. You need to get the engine as low as possible to the ground so you don't have to lift the car so much. So lose the carb and valve cover/rocker shaft anyway. Easy enough to come off, and you cna lay a shop towel over everything to keep trash out.
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Frank Swygert
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