Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
The quest for roller lifters |
Post Reply | Page <123 |
Author | |
Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I'm running old Crane 86518 in stock lifter bores with a mild solid roller. Seems ok. Was looking for replacement lifters since the Crane's aren't available anymore and closest I've found is the GS Products 8618.
Basic specs: > 0.75" wheel diameter > pressurized oiling to wheel & bearing > edge-orifice metering of oil to pushrod for better oil control > nominal body diameter 0.9035" +/- 0.0003" but can custom grind to suit for special orders > recommended 0.0020/0.0025” lifter-to-bore clearance > cut-out for wheel approx. 0.495” vs. approx. 0.580” on Crane so should seal oil gallery better for reasonable lifts without needing bushed bores > same pushrod seat height as Crane > made in USA Hope this helps, RD. Basic comparison of Crane 86518 vs. GS Products 8618 based on measurements of Crane and dimensions from GS Products. Not 100% to scale, but gives an idea on wheel cut-out. Still considering a set of the GS lifters, but haven't heard if anyone's running them? Edited by Red Devil - Jan/22/2015 at 4:48pm |
|
SKeown
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/30/2009 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 3085 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Something worth noting: I tried Crane lifters with a std base circle cam and saw very erratic oil pressure fluctuation. This was due to the wheel cutouts exposing the oil galleys at max lift. With the engine on a stand and with the intake off I ran the oil pump with a drill while rotating the crank. What I saw was a 10 psi variation at different crank angles, and a wild needle fluctuation on the running engine. I also saw a lot of oil flowing around the Crane's. I then converted to Johnson lifters in non-bushed bores and that went away. I then had the bores bushed and switched to Comp lifters with the raised link bars (to allow for fatter pushrods), that gained me nothing oil pressure wise over the Johnson brand lifters. I handed over the Crane's to tsanchez and he had no problem with them with a reduced base circle cam that would produce .726 lift with 1.6 ratio rockers. I seriously doubt there is much difference between our two blocks as far as galley drilling? SKeown Edited by SKeown - Jan/16/2015 at 2:01pm |
|
imacarfan2
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Northeastern MA Status: Offline Points: 971 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Great thread! Anyone else have any thoughts? I have a rather large Crane solid roller I might try in my strip motor. It's this one:
I need some roller lifters to go with it. Is the best bet having the lifter bores bushed then getting lifters to match or is something like the Johnson lifters good enough? Oh, don't pay attention to what it says at the top of the Summit page next to the pic. That info is wrong. Scroll down and you'll see the correct specs for this cam. ;)
Edited by imacarfan2 - Jan/22/2015 at 3:12pm |
|
67 Ambo conv
68 AMX 68 Ambo 4 door 70 Ambo 4 door (2) 71 Hornets (1 SC/360) 73 Hornet 2 door 77 Matador coupe 77 Sportabout 78 Concord 2 door 81 Concord wagon |
|
uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Just a comment, whether it has any bearing or not but it reflects thought. I do not build engines for drag racing, I build street motors and use cams that will work with OEM valve trains. This means that I also am not twisting them as tight as some of these are. A high lift cam does two things. One, it moves the valves further and faster inducing harmonics into parts that normally are not stressed that high, requiring stronger springs which alter loading on the Lifters and asociated parts. A given. But it does one other thing, it moves lifters further placing them in a mechanical position that they are not designed to run in. Much has been made about oil flow through and at lifters, but they are moving further in their bores than the design was intended to move in. What is to say that they are not also rocking in their bores more so then they were designed to do simply because they are moving further out and also possibly in. I don't have lifter problems with my engines. But I stay with in the basic design parameters. I isnow and always has been that MOPAR small block lifters work in an AMC application providing the oil hole is spaced correctly. I don't know but I don't care whether I have used them or not, I have no problems. But I do not purchase a cam for over .500 lift and also do not intend to twist past 6000 rpm and then rarely. But an equivalent situation would be a NASCAR push rod engine that will run rpms upwards of 8500 rpm + for a period of hours. I wonder what they do to get that done, and I suppose quite a bit. I do know thought that if I wanted to run that kind of rpm with that kind of reliability, a discarded running, for what ever reason including rules changing, NASCAR long block can be had for about the same price of rebuilding (seriously) an AMC V8 engine that has already solved the performance at high rpm problem. When MOPAR dropped out of racing there was smoking deals on fresh MOPAR engines at the time. I personally suspect that there is a stability problem with the lifters related to simply using them way beyond there design capability. But what ever, those are my thoughts if any one cares. Good luck on what ever is going on. I have a 232 to build and a 360 and then I think I will be done. I have been in this hobby since 1979 and it is time to back out a bit and enjoy what time I have left. |
|
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
|
amc7174
AMC Apprentice Joined: Mar/09/2012 Location: Sun City, Ca. Status: Offline Points: 87 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I recently came across a box of roller lifters marked for AMC but I'm not sure that's what they are. They measure .9045 and have the oil hole perpendicular to the axle. If I'm not mistaken, AMC lifters have the oil hole parallel to the axle. Any opinions on what I have? Would the oil hole being perpendicular to the axle have any detrimental effect? Thanks
Tom
|
|
Q.What is on the last page of a Chevrolet owners manual?
A. A bus pass! |
|
Boris Badanov
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/14/2013 Location: NH USA Status: Offline Points: 4210 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
It should have no effect, and the AMC outside diameter is desireable.
|
|
Gremlin Dreams
|
|
Slate
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/28/2012 Location: Airyzona Status: Offline Points: 2782 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
If those are truly US made and someone can report back with a solid use report those are prettytempting at the price listed. Steve
|
|
Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Depends if lifters use edge-orifice metering of oil to the pushrod seat (oil hole is in the upper band of main body – old Crane, GSP, Comp, etc.) or if they use a hole in the centre undercut (oil band) of the lifter body with an internal metering disc valve or orifice to the pushrod seat (Johnson solid rollers, most hydraulics). If they use edge-orifice metering, you may get a fair bit more oil to the top end if the drilling is perpendicular to the lifter gallery and intersects the gallery when the lifter is on the base circle of the cam … if the lifter doesn’t have a secondary internal orifice to limit flow. Edge-orifice metering is supposed to limit flow by relying on just the clearance between lifter body and bore, rather than being supplied directly from the gallery and metering internally. That's why old Crane solid rollers did a good job of limiting oil up top. Note the picture below represents a Crane 86518 on the left (drilling parallel to the oil gallery) and on the right if the drilling was perpendicular to the gallery. The perpendicular drilling directly intersects the gallery, so would flow more on the base circle and at low lifts. The small hole in the body undercut provides pressurized oil from the gallery to the roller wheel & bearing. Hope this helps, RD. |
|
Post Reply | Page <123 |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |