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Spirit Doors

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scramboy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scramboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Spirit Doors
    Posted: Apr/20/2014 at 8:55pm
I was removing the doors off my Spirit to replace the hinge bushings and to my surprise the doors had to weigh at least 90 lbs! Whats in there lead weights? Is that much added weight due to the door beams? I have been lightening the car up as I am building it and how can I remove those beams? Can I do it without destoying the door structure and totally dismantling the glass, regulators, etc. please any help will be appreciated. Scramboy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/20/2014 at 9:30pm
If you look close at that guard beam and where the welds are to hold it to the door structure, I think you'll see there no way to get them out without at least skinning the outer pqanel.

I'm removed lots of guard beams from a lot of different stock cars for racing, where we have a full roll cage they just get in the way.

I've never seen one yet you could get out without skinning the door.

Though I did once take a Saws_all and cut it thru the outer panel at each end, then used a long putty knife to break the beam's glue bond with the outer panel, and lifted it out of the door. But that was a door with no glass or anything else inside.

On second thought, you might be able to drill out the spot welds holding it to the structure, IF you can get to all those spot welds from the inner door structure. That would have to be on a door with all the window mechanism removed of course.

But you're probably going to be disappointed if you weigh those guard beams after you get them out. 15-20 lbs.

Edited by tyrodtom - Apr/20/2014 at 9:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2014 at 6:49am
Those doors are just plain heavy. tyrodtom is right. I rigged an attachment for my engine hoist when I pulled the doors to rebuild the hinges.
You would have to totally gut the door. Been there - as I'm doing a full redo of my car, including conversion to electric windows and locks. The window mechanisms are a lot of the weight. The tracks and adjustments in there, that little brace is nothing compared to the door itself, shoot, the window frame is pretty hefty. I've be very surprised if that "beam" was even 15 pounds on these cars. I just don't see it. Pull the latch, the hinges and weigh them. I have swapped window frames on these doors and they account for a lot of weight. They may look small,  but cut one out of a door and take a look at the ends, how that steel is folded and rolled to get the structural strength required. There's plates where the hinges bolt to, the window glass is heavy, the window regulator, etc.
I've gutted and parted some of those doors - good luck reducing the weight by much at all. And frankly, if you remove that, you will be sorely disappointed in the future - rattles, stress cracks in the door skin and structure, flexing and problems with fitment. The integrity will be reduced.
I'm thinking it's more like maybe 5 pounds for that beam you talk of....... I have a door all but fully gutted and could remove that bit and weight it and tell you exactly. It's already sitting by my shop mostly apart, all that's left is the window and regulator (which again is pretty heavy!)
It's your car and your choice - but do give it some thought time and take everything into consideration.......if you plan on those doors holding together well long-term, look them over.
They crack very easily, they rattle and come apart as it is.
It all depends on your goals for the car, what you want to achieve and what you want out of it.
Frankly, I'm adding some structure and strength to mine. Tired of the flex and rattle and stress cracks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2014 at 7:45am
Gosh, not that I want to do it... but I wonder why removable door skins are not common. One of the many odd things about my 65 Riviera, was that the door skins were fastened on. I think from 66 or 67 on they were welded. I assume the 63 to 65 doors were 170+ pounds if you had power windows and power vent.

I guess it would be easier to just mold your good door and make a fiberglass shell or if you have a the equipment, a weeks time to make a 3D print of your door in soft plastic.

Now that 3D printing is being more common, we can start tinkering the idea of recreating rare small parts with high detail.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2014 at 8:17am
The door skins are removable .   You cut the few spotwelds holding it tight, then either grind the edge off, or if you want to reuse the door skin you can unfold the flange with a little plier like tool. I bought that little tool at Harbor Freight for about $10.

If I'm just replacing the door skin, I can remove it in 5 minutes with a fresh 24 grit grinding disc, and a cut off wheel, on most cars.
I've done hundreds.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2014 at 8:19am
Removable door skins aren't common with AMC because the outer skin is an integral part of the door structure much like the rockers are a part of a unibody car frame. Take off the skin and the door is going to flex and move and change shape. The skin is fastened and welded in place to keep it rigid and strong. The front edge where the hinges mount would flex with each time the door opened and closed. It needs that skin to keep it from moving in and out. There's no frame to a door, it's a unibody type of concept.
On Spirit and other "sedans", the window frame is welded to the door skin AND the inner door -  to keep the window frame in place and upright but mostly to keep the top of the skin from vibrating and cracking. Otherwise, if not welded to the window frame and thus the door structure at the top, that long large opening for the window to move in means there's a piece of sheet metal just sitting there with the edge free to move and shake.
Welding the window frame to the "skin" prevents the window frame from being pushed out as the door closes and squeezes the seal tight but also keeps the top edge of the door sheet metal from just flopping around. If that weld is cut, you have some crazy vibrations and the door develops cracks.
(ask me how I know)
I've had a few apart and have replaced window frames...........the door is pretty flimsy when you start making a few cuts.


Here's how I handled the weight of the door when I rebuilt the hinges -



The entire thread is here:
http://theamcforum.com/forum/rebuilding-door-hinges_topic35873_post329082.html

It may be hard to tell from this small photo, but you can tell the window frame is sort of in place, but not in the final correct position and is yet to be welded into proper final position. I had to replace the original as the original was literally a factory defect and shaped wrong.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tyrodtom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2014 at 8:46am
The door skin, or door outer panel is just as removable on a Spirit as any other car.

The outer panel is listed in the old parts book as a separate part, and a time, 4.5 hrs, to perform the R&R. Which is about on par for doing the same operation on any other vehicle.
66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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Marty View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2014 at 11:14am
YES! Tell Me About It ! I Have Door's For Sale ! and Lost A Sale Because The Country Bumpkin Shipper Here Wanted $150.00 to Ship IT Out of FLorida 32148 .
Marty
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/22/2014 at 7:19pm
I Have Front Doors For Sale > 1978 to 1987 ( I Think?) 2 DR. Spirit A.M.X. Concord .. Parting out a 1981 Spirit Hatchback > Selling Parts Till The Whole Auto is Sold and Out of My Yard . Asking $250.00 OBO FOR Each Door .. Shipping out of FLorida was quoted $150.00 ( Heavy ehh!)

http://s1328.photobucket.com/user/krzyze-as-i-am/media/AMC%20Spirit%20AMX%20Concord%20Drivers%20side%20DOOR/IMG_0634sideview_zps66bbe9f7.jpg.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Macsziptiegarage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2024 at 2:16pm
I just trimmed my spirit doors for a track build. I lost an amazing amount of weight in the door. Trimmed, bolt on only, no hinges. The beam in the door weighs 16.5 pounds. The door now weighs 16 pounds, vice its stock 2,000 pounds.
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