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Edelbrock carbs. &, or Ethanol? |
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RebelYell
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: May/04/2011 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 824 |
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Posted: Jan/23/2014 at 6:36am |
The Rebel was not running as well as it should so pulled the carburetor and opened it up. There was a surprising amount of black particulate in the bottom, but the main problem appears to be plunger on the accelerator pump was swollen and spongy causing it to operate poorly. I buy the same gas for Matador which still has the original factory Motorcraft and it runs fine. Anyone else have a similar problem. Here is a poor quality cell phone photo I took of the new plunger seal sitting on top of the old one. It's not real easy to see, but if you look closely you can see the old one is a larger, and distorted than the new one.
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Traveller
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/26/2011 Location: Idaho Status: Offline Points: 1011 |
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The plunger type accel. pump carbs seem to be more susceptible to ethanol issues. The Edelbrock/Carter carbs are also more susceptible to heat causing the fuel to boil in the bowls with the high ethanol content. When the engine is shut off, the ethanol boils off, and the action of the percolating causes the float to sink lower while it's happening, which lets residual fuel pressure push more fuel into the bowls. That uncontrolled fuel raises the fuel level above normal and lets fuel overflow into the intake through the mains. There's always enough fuel between the mechanical pump and the carb to flood the carb if the float drops. It's not as much of an issue with electric pumps as long as the residual pressure bleeds down.
Edelbrock knows that it's an issue as I've spent time on their tech line speaking with them about it and they admit that it's been an issue especially with higher than 10% ethanol content. They are recommending a thick heat insulating gasket as a basket gasket (at least) and careful routing of fuel lines. As for the accel pump issue, it's something you can change from the top of the carb while it's still on the motor, and it's probably just a good idea to replace it every couple years. Ethanol eats diaphragm style accel. pumps also, but they hold up longer than the cup type. It's also hard on power valves in Holleys.
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THE MENACE
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/04/2008 Location: So. California Status: Offline Points: 4437 |
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This is copied from the front page of the installation instructions for an Edelbrock Carb.
ATTENTION: EDELBROCK CARBURETORS ARE NOT CALIBRATED FOR OR COMPATIBLE WITH ALCOHOL RACE FUEL OR E85 PUMP FUEL. USE OF ALCOHOL OR E85 IN YOUR EDELBROCK CARBURETOR WILL DAMAGE YOUR CARBURETOR AND VOID YOUR WARRANTY. THESE FUELS CAN ALSO DAMAGE OTHER FUEL SYSTEM COMPONENTS, UNLESS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED FOR USE WITH ALCOHOL FUELS.
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Former Owner of:
The Craig Breedlove "AERO AMX" Still Owner: SS/AMX #9 replica (THE BIG MENACE) 70 AMX 416, EFI, Nash 5 speed 70 Javelin 401, 727 (Wife's car) 72 Gremlin Autocross Project. |
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Traveller
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/26/2011 Location: Idaho Status: Offline Points: 1011 |
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That's true, but they don't even like E10 which is mandated by the feds to be available. I've seen a couple places here that all advertise E10, actually have closer to 15% ethanol. One customer we had tested his mid-grade at a station he frequents, and it was 18%. Anything over 5% or so seems to make problems for the carbs with small, internal float bowls like the Edelbrocks, quadrajets and such. The Holley style carbs don't seem to suffer the heat issues as bad, but I think it's because of the fact that the float bowls are hung out in open space off the ends of the carbs, which makes them less susceptible to heat soak issues. In hot weather it doesn't matter what kind of carb you have, it needs to run an insulator base gasket.
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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At least it's only the rubber. Edelbrocks are made of aluminum, which deals with alcohol fuels better than zinc carburetors (Holleys) do.
Yes, rubber diaphragm accelerator pumps deal with ethanol better than the rubber piston cup ones do. The cups tend to swell and stick in their bore, but the diaphragms survive ok until you let them dry out. Once they dry out, they turn brittle and won't move anymore. Power valves are the same as the diaphragms. They tend to do fine until they dry out. If they dry out, the diaphragm will stiffen up. If I plan to store carburetors for a long time, I sort of "fog" them with WD-40 to keep all the rubber and seals soft. |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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tsanchez
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/09/2007 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 4303 |
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Just built a pair of edelcraps that were on a dual carb setup. Had to use CLR then acid to get all thecrap out of the bowls and passages so no they dont do any better.
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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I've always been happy with mine, but I let it sit with our NYS blend and it ate the solder out of the floats on the front carb. All I can think of is that because the front carb just idles 99% of the time, that the gas sat in it longer and damaged it more. I couldn't save that carb. There was a hard dark green film that wouldn't come off after two weeks of soaking. The rear carb cleaned up OK, but doesn't idle like it use to.
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348AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Massachusetts Status: Offline Points: 4165 |
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I posted about this this past summer when my OE carter...same as an edelbrock...had a lot of E10 residue in the bowls, on the floats and caused the accelerator pump check valve passage to stick shut, preventing fuel from going up the accelerator pump passage from the bowl to the shooter.
I used to really like the carter/edelbrock until about 7 years ago when E10 replaced straight gas around here. These carbs don't work with prolonged use of ethanol fuels, especially if stored for 4 months or more. The other problem is the old school needle and seat design and the floats are antiquated, and they all get a film of evaporated ethanol build up on the brass that causes the needles to stick as well as the float hinges and pins. Until edelbrock makes a new design float and needle and seat that is immune to this ethanol film build, up I wont use my OE carter again. They are great carbs but what good are the ease of tuning, the light weight, and the original looks if they wont work with todays gas without tearing them down and cleaning them out 2 times a year?!! Stabil has just come out with a new additive called stabil 360 wich is supposed to have a "fogging" like capability that coats the inside of the gas tank fuel lines and carb and blocks ethanol deposits and moisture. |
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dbomb
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/22/2012 Location: new jersey Status: Offline Points: 705 |
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The ethanol is a real bugger for sure I fix alot of motorcycle atv power equipment stuff and it really wreaking havac if youre not using vehicle regularly and or treating fuel with a preserve. I do alot of carn rebuilds and cleans and used to use alot of canned carb cleaner and berkebile 2+2 trype of caustic sprays . I got so toxic that i was feeling sick all the time now Im soaking the parts in Castrol Super Clean and Purple Power water based stuff and its actually doing a much better job . Sure there are times when Im forced to glassbead carb bodies but. Im not blowing so much carbcleaner around and its actually quite cheaper and i believe much easier on the enviornment.Even running racks of carbs and small cylinders and heads in the dishwasher. A good old scrap dishwasher from craigslist free section makes excellent parts washer if ya can turn the water temp up high it almost cleans with no soap, almost like a small hot tank.
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rebuiling 73 amx need parts
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6PakBee
Supporter of TheAMCForum Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Offline Points: 5458 |
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I've pretty much resigned myself to anything that I drive on a regular basis is going to get aftermarket EFI. Anything that is a casual driver is either premium fuel or loaded up with enough magic sauce that the ethanol wouldn't be a problem.
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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