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Mega Modding Braking, Suspension & Steering

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Wrambler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Wrambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/30/2015 at 12:46pm
Both my sons have expressed an interest in welding, yet neither will take advantage of what I have.
The best way to learn is to take a tech class. Most areas have adult learning in this.

You get the advice of someone who can weld, learn the basics, burn up their gases and metals etc; Lots of practice time; IMHO it is the best way to start out.


EDIT: I noticed going back to the beginning, your steering shaft ujoints are not in phase. This will often cause binding of the shaft as it has to flex to achieve rotation. When in phase the crosses line up.


Edited by Wrambler - Jan/30/2015 at 12:54pm
Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler
4.0L, 5 speed
2015 Grand Cherokee Limited
2019 Chrysler 300
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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/31/2015 at 7:12pm
Originally posted by Wrambler Wrambler wrote:

Both my sons have expressed an interest in welding, yet neither will take advantage of what I have.
The best way to learn is to take a tech class. Most areas have adult learning in this.

You get the advice of someone who can weld, learn the basics, burn up their gases and metals etc; Lots of practice time; IMHO it is the best way to start out.


EDIT: I noticed going back to the beginning, your steering shaft ujoints are not in phase. This will often cause binding of the shaft as it has to flex to achieve rotation. When in phase the crosses line up.


Yeah, that will be my only option if I am to do any welding in my future... Just my problem was I had no idea that I would find an interest in welding. Actually, I don't but it would be handy have learned at this moment of time.

Maybe you can nudge one of them into taking the time with you and learn. Its free for the most part, and even if it is not car related, they may find it worth while to have had something that was passed on from you.

I was just too young, but remembered 2nd cousins and their dad working on a weekend racer when visiting time to time. I could not handle being in the garage too long as it hurt my ears hearing the clang of steal hit the cement, let alone the air hammer and impact gun.

I was only there to pester them, from having a fascination with seeing a race car, even if  it was home grown.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/31/2015 at 9:51pm
comment deleted with apology to 304dude for having to negotiate polite answer


Edited by amcenthusiast - Jun/19/2017 at 10:55pm
443 XRV8 Gremlin YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=2DmFOKRuzUc
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/31/2015 at 11:02pm
Poly Bushing Madness

What fits many not fit proper or function as intended


We all know poly bushing installs have their ups and downs, and a lot of opinions to go with it.

The simplist poly bushing install for fit and function, is for the sway bar. Though, because factory bushings are based upon rubber, anything firmer, or provides tight clearances when compontents are fitted, will effect oem feel, and most all function.

So, there will be consequences in any poly bushing install, whether you mix or match. Just because one person has not been effected great enough to complain or even notice, does not mean there is going to be no issues. Thus, I will not give my own opinions to my past experiences, as this section is on identification and possible resolution of major issues with poly when expecting their usage to function well enough for oem replacement.

Since no one outside of me, has given mod tips on poly bushings, to relieve their inherent non conforming function (my strut rod mod section), I will add further, with more poly mods as I go.

For starters, the LCA bushings seem too large in width, to fit smoothly within the cross member pocket for its camber adjustment. Nothing is said about it, in its instructions, nor any word from users of the poly bushings.

From what I have seen in dry loose fit, without the adjuster bolt to hold the arm in place, the bushing fits way too snug (wedged), if not very tight against the inner walls of the cross member. Since there is no room or provisions to use proper washers with the 70 on up LCA poly bushings, you have direct contact against unlubricated poly. Well, if you lube the sides of the bushings, it will rub clean away during installation of the arm, or soon after, when driven.

Here are untouched poly bushings, as fitted (Before Modding) notice the longer than oem steel sleeve is not protruding from the poly. OEM sleeves are a bit smaller and allow some movement to pivot with camber adjustment, which IMO, cannot be done with untouched poly bushings.









I used teflon washers to combat squeaks on the strut rod bushings, but after looking at how OEM washers will keep things proper from poly rub against the cross member inner walls, there will not be any reason to for both upper and lower arm bushings.

It looks like trimming will be needed firstly, as the metal sleeve is some what buried within the poly structure.

Here are the modded poly bushings for better fitment.









To get it right, some testing with how the washers will stack after trimming both the bushing and its steel sleeve, and fitment inside the cross member pocket. The steel sleeves are just too long to fit washers between the walls of the cross member.

Did a wee dry test after the mods, without adding washers. The install was a wee more tighter than installing with OEM rubber bushings. But with a little nudging with a rubber mallet to align the adjuster bolt with the slotted holes. The arm moved like stock and did not squeak from side loading on the poly bushing faces. Most of all the squeaking was just by having a bit too much meat on the bushing faces to allow travel. Meaning, it wanted the bushing to compress against the crossmember, and not allow for pivot. Pretty much making the bushing more solid fit than needed, thus the harshness of restricting travel, when the bush wants to stay fixed against the walls of the cross member.

Adding the oem washers will allow for better side loading stability and allow pivot along the bushing face without grabbling or trying to maintain a fixed seat.

Because of the LCA bushing being a bit difficult with proper fit, I assume the same fix will be necessary for the UCA poly bushing kit.

After letting my subconscious figure it out over night, I decided to drop using the supplied thrust bushing, since there is no reason to use it. There is no side loading on the lower arm pivot, when using poly strut rods. The thrust bushing is a band aid for rubber bushed strut rods.

After getting the trimming done, about 1/8" removed, and drilling the ends of each steel sleeve over sized to fit the oem washers, for pressing in to place, I checked and found no reason to use Teflon washers. There is no side loading of any naked poly against the cross member's inner walls.

Here are some images of what was done... the smaller end washers will be pressed in after the assembly is installed to the arm. They are partially fitted into their holes to stay in place temporarily.



I used a uni-bit to oversize the end holes. Notice the step pattern. Since my bit was a wee smaller than needed, I had to wobble the bit side to side, just enough to make the bit feel slightly loose in the hole.



The poly should never rub or spin in the arms pivot point in rotation. Why allow for it to happen by allowing poly to touch areas of friction and greasing up areas that should not allow for movement. The poly bush should stay stationary inside the bush cup and steel sleeve, just like its rubber counter part.

I decided to use the 4 extra sway bar link bushing washers that were from my Addco sway bar, which were not used. I oversized the holes for reperposing as replacement upper arm washers. They are a wee smaller than the larger end washers, and a wee bigger than the smaller end washers, but are nicely cupped and thick enough to serve for long term use.

They do not have centering dowels, but once they are mounted in place, they will stay nicely seated with proper adhesive. The nice thing is that you don't need to drill out the sleeve hole to a larger diameter, just trim a bit off one end of the steel sleeve and both sides of the poly bushing.

Right now I chose my trusty 3M gasket and rubber seal adhesive. It seems to stick well enough to the poly. Here is the largest side with the adhesive in place. Once cured, I will remove the residue from the washer's face.



Once I am done, the modded bushing should look fairly similar to oem. Well at least, not like what the kit has offered as an OEM replacement solution.


Edited by 304-dude - Sep/10/2019 at 6:53pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2015 at 8:34am
OK,  I have gone way way back on a plan... Only because I am moving the upper control arm position. I have done an old Trans Am trick to lengthen the lower control arm a wee over 1.120 inches. Believe me I did not want to do it, but it will hopefully eleminate the need for the wheel spacer on each wheel. So, more is less on this part of the mod. Right now my lower arm is out at the shop, so until next week, I should able to post a picture.

As it stands, the extended arm is done after the first row of bolt holes after the sway bar mounting hole. This way the location for sway bar and strut rod stay in their OEM locations. There will be some added reinforcement since the ball joint no longer strengthens the strut rod.

Now as for the blasted rack inner tie rod... You all may know my dislike for the stock 89 to 2002 Mustang tie rod, due to its week design. There are only a few but slightly better that will fit. The best bolt on is the EV318. Fits Lincoln Continintal, though it probably still uses a small ball and weak sprung nylon cup, just like the Mustang and other Fords of the late 80s up to 2002, EV127.

My choice to use an 2006 Expedition tie rod and modify it will have to be for now. As I already have the parts and only if they don't weld properly, the Crown Vic tie rods will be ordered.

Outside of the EV318 being a huge rod diameter, the Expedition tie rod's ball and socket is a monster. To me it is worth the try to weld it.





Edited by 304-dude - Jun/14/2015 at 6:27am
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nickleone Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2015 at 12:24pm
The strut rod going to the rear may be great engineering.
But on my 2 Pro Rally AMCs (a 401 73 Gremlin and a 390V8 AWD SX/4)
I found the strut rods bend. I believe if they were like the Ford set up I would not have had to replace them.
Or beat them with a 10 pound sledge like I did at more than one service
out in the field to get the alignment somewhat close to stock.

Nick
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2015 at 4:18pm
I guess I would hardly call the strut rod "Great" engineering. To me it looked like a relatively cheap way to manufacture an independent front suspension and have it more or less work reliably through the warranty period with little or no maintenance.
However it does force the lower control arm to go through a monky motion arc causing the lower control arm to stress and fatigue break as the bushings wear and are neglected.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                     
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2015 at 5:04pm
Well, I never explained my strut rod tweak. Nobody has bothered making the pivot true without shortening or lengthening.

If there was some special engineering AMC engineers were able to do without monetary limits or time constraints, what they did for what was available, was to at least have proper angles and pivot locations. My tweak is to isolate the wonky movement with strengthening the pivot to be semi isolated. Until I get the lower arm and tie rod installed and properly adjusted, I will start working on my fairly brilliant strut rod mod to make it be the back bone, not an Achilles heel.

I appreciate your concern as many do so much around the stock suspension and are forgiving or just an aware of the strut rods limitations.

When I am done I could hit the strut rod with a 15lbs sludge hammer and the only movement I'll get is its proper arc of the lower arms actiion.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2015 at 6:09pm
Nickleone, looking at what has been offered as suspension mods here and through Trans Am... I seem to be doing things different. Mostly in so much being incorporated.

Maybe what I have done at this point in explanation should be laid out in direct details.

My spring perch is over 1-1/2" shorter so all suspension components are settled at least that much in drop. Very different than adding drop plates.

The upper control arm will be moved via suspension hump relocation. It will push the upper arm out 1 inch, over the frame, not inside.

The longer lower arm to match the upper arm will keep the suspension  arc close to stock. With a lower and flatter arm profile the forces on the suspension will be more lateral than ever before. So, I expect to some degree the strut rod will not need to bend to heed to g forces. As the angle of forces being exerted will be more centered down the rod toward the pivot, instead of pushing movement away from the pivot, in which will cause flex and distortion, and eventally fatuge. 


71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/11/2015 at 6:11pm
I've not seen it done with and AMC strut rod suspension, but I have seen it done with a Ford (Pinto or Mustang II) which has a similar suspension but using the strut rod in opposite position, by bending the strut rod so that the lower control arm movement was correct when bumps were hit.
However my preference is a lower "A" frame be fabricated that will allow caster/camber adjustments.
                                                                                                                                                                                            
70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration
76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power
80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit
74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam
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