Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.
|
Mega Modding Braking, Suspension & Steering |
Post Reply | Page <1 23456 23> |
Author | |
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Yeah, something like a CF suspension... Though my build was planned to be built to look factory, or less packaged so to speak. I got my parts back pronto... Will post pix soon. The tie rods fit perfectly for true parallelizm... Ball center is offset from lower arm pivot towards the spindles steering arm very very close to the distance between the spindle's lower pivot point center and steering arm at the tie rod mounting hole's center. Lower arm needs some clean up at the welds but looks straight along with ball joint and strut rod mounting holes perfectly aligned. My only issue is I gave up a perfectly good lower arm to be sacrificed. Now I will rebuild what was removed and graft from scratch to make my scrapped lower arm complete again. Now I am at a point of being anxious to get the suspension humps done, as for the most part redoing the whole front end did not seem so complicated and a beyatch to perform. |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Modding the steering and suspension components
Here are my photos of the modded parts... The welds are rough and unfinished for fitment testing and will be cleaned up after some reinforcement has been completed. Basically I cut off the original Mustang GT tie rod mounting ends and welded them to the bigger and more robust truck tie rods once I cut off the threaded stud ends. Since the truck tie rods are all steel inside, they hold up to heat, unlike the nylon bushed Mustang tie rods. The lower control arms were extended out, and required a donor to add extension. Notice the extra strut rod mounting holes. They are equally spaced. For more info, check out my specs page below this entry. Edited by 304-dude - May/17/2017 at 5:08pm |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
Specifications - Under construction
Stock steering replacement options: 2000 to 2004 Mustang GT Rack & Pinion and steering shaft Tie rods: Note - Inner tie rod ends may need 2.000" shortened. May need threads extended down further on the shaft. EV318 (2002 Lincoln Contintal) 13.050" Length 0.704" Rod thickness M16-1.5R Adjuster end 15/16" x20R Female Rack end Can use stock Mustang billows supplied with rack or upgrade to 2002 Lincoln Contintal billows ES3495 (2002 Crown Victoria) 4.200" Length M16-1.5L Bent Male Adjuster end 0.581" - 0.650" 1/2"-20L - tapered stud ES2900S (1998 Tracker) Adjuster sleeve 3.500" Length M16-1.5L M16-1.5R Modded steering options: 2003 - 2004 Mustang Cobra R Rack & Pinion and a perfomance solid u joint steering shaft. Maximum Motorsports solid bushing Mustang rack installation kit Tie rods: Note - Inner tie rod ends may need shortened. Has plenty of extra thread down the shaft. EV456 (2006 Expedition 2WD) 12.150" Length 0.656" Rod Thickness M16-1.5R - Adjuster end. M16-1.5R Male - Rack end Note: Must remove the threaded stud and replace by welding the cut off 15/16" female end from a Mustang inner tie rod. Must use 2006 Expedition billows, as Mustang billows are too skinny. Will need to cut Mustang billows large end to use as a donut to fit the Expedition billows over the smaller diameter rack end. ES3495 (2002 Crown Victoria) 4.200" Length M16-1.5L Bent male adjuster end 0.5810" - 0.650" 1/2"-20L - tapered stud ES2900S (1998 Tracker) Adjuster sleeve 3.500" Length M16-1.5L M16-1.5R 2005 F150 / Expedition / Navigator inner tie rod dust boots Suspension Components: Front shock for modded 2.5" compressed suspension - Modded mount OEM Spec KYB Excel-G 344469 (2000 Nissan Frontier) Same weight as Javelin KYB Excel-G 344261 (2000 VW Euro Van) 1,200 lbs heavier KYB Excel-G 343158 (1973 Road Runner) Front shock for modded 2.5" compressed suspension - Stock mount Drop in OEM performance type KYB Autoadjust KG5404 (71/73 Mustang) OEM type KYB Excel-G 344040 (1999 Blazer) HD Mono Tube KYB MonoMax 565046 (1999 Blazer) Modded sway bar installation, and relocation. Shortened XLR inner tie rods and modified shaft to fit sway bar bushings and hardware. MOOG EV343 11.92" length 0.593" rod diameter M14-1.5 end thread M18-1.5 male mounting thread. With 3" 3/8"-24 bolt to mount sway bar, bushings and beveled compression washers. 10° KPI Mustang II forged spindles - Bottom mounting hole needs taper increase for AMC lower ball joint. Use 10 degree tapered reamer. 7° KPI spindles require no reaming on the upper ball joint stud hole, since stock upper ball joints will fit properly. Just you must use the dropped spring perch mod to even out arm angles, since the spindle upright is .680" shorter than stock upright. Else use a GM ball joint, which will allow untouched stock suspension, with Mustang II 7° KPI spindles. For upper standard ball joint use 67 to early 70 GMC C2500 - Moog K680 and modify bolt hole locations on the UCA to mount. For heavy duty use late 70 to 95 GMC C2500 upper ball joint - Moog K6122, and use the 10° reamer on the upper arm holes of the spindles. Same mods used for standard size GMC ball joint are required on the UCA to mount. For a full modded setup 10° spindles only... a different ball joint is required, unless you want to slightly ream the upper tapered hole, on the spindle, oversized for 1/2" deeper to use a K6122 ball joint. The required ball joint for 10° KPI Mustang II spindles is for the C20 and like trucks, k6122 for general selection. I modified 71 to 73 Mustang / Torino spring perches to use AMC springs, and installed poly bushings as to easily swap out Ford spacing pivot pin with AMC. Use Ford Mustang springs if left untouched. This will drop suspension up to 2.50" and compress the suspension angles to allow more stable cornering. Extended the lower arm and upper arm about 1.5"... required for 10° KPI spindles. Measurements: Mustang II spindle mounting arm distance is around 0.700" shorter than stock. It will bring the lower control arm up a tad higher. Which will ruin roll angle stability, without using a GM truck ball joint. To compensate either use a spacer with stock ball joint or use a 67 to early 71 GMC C2500 truck upper ball joint. Though lowering with spring height will cause wild camber addition when UCA angle goes above 10° on bump. For a proper suspension alignment, the upper tapered mounting hole, must be reamed enough to seat the GM ball joint, deep enough to make the gap between the tops of both control arms near the center of the ball joint. You will need to use an extra, thick nut between the castle nut, to take up the gap on such a long stud. I found that K6122 or K6292 upper ball joint is super duty, made for late 71 to 95 or 96 to 2005 GMC C2500 trucks. It has the same mounting stud taper as the lower ball joint. Spindle up rights must be reamed with a 10 degree tapered reamer on the top mounting hole for the K6122 or K6292 ball joint. Lower control arm distance (Stock) 14.000" ball joint center to bushing center. Lower control arm distance (Modded) 15.250" ball joint center to bushing center using GM truck or van ball joint. Assembled tie rod length (Stock) 14.00" from both pivot end centers. Assembled tie rod length (Modded) <=16.000" from both pivot end centers. Woodward recommended rack toe out of .500" has been added for Akerman angle and greater stability. Though Mustang II spindles have the required .500" offset steering arm outside of the ball joint for Akerman angle. So, I will probably end up adjusting down the tie rods around .125" for a total length of =< 15.325" for a wee bit of toe out. Strut rod length (Stock) 14.250" from inner mounting bolt on LCA to mounting bracket pivot hole. Strut rod length 14.250" from inner mounting bolt on LCA to mounting bracket pivot hole using stock mounting location, with modified suspension hump, should bring a distance around to 1.200" (Close to Woodward's recommended back set rack distance) of positive offset between the steering arm to the rack center, to set a proper loaded Ackerman angle, without having to place the rack deep against the crossmember, while using the 5" Mustang II steering arms length. It will also will place static caster in around +3°, set between 7° to 10° . Distance from eccentric bolt's center to inner tie rod pivot ball center 1.000". Only my modded tie rod concept will correct bump steer. Distance from spindle steering arm's pivot center to lower ball joint center .50" Modded UCA offset from stock location, 1" back towards fire wall, 1" out towards wheel. Allows use of a longer LCA, brings castor up to modern wheel and tire specs, and also allows for more clearance for custom headers. With all above setup, I should have 3.00" of travel from rest point, which will have about a 2.00" of drop from stock, with very little camber gain. (.0626" push out with lower arm, and .0917" push out with upper arm (.021" max with canceling out), on total swing. Lower arm swing will be within the -4.3° at rest to 5° at top range. Notes: Everything is matched to fit with the 2015 Mustang GT wheels. Will work for street, and recreational track use, with KPI of 2.70". For race 0 mm up to 10 mm offset with wheels being limited to 9" max, to bring in KPI around 1.00" to 1.50" vsuspension - best setup My screen shots of my design are on vsusp.com, under this link. Custom Modified Mustang II / AMC Suspension Edited by 304-dude - Apr/30/2020 at 2:12pm |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
LCA & UCA lightweight micro boxing tweaks
OK, many have their own take on reinforcements, such as boxing the arms, adding reinforcing plate along the side wall of the bushing, or replacing with custom tubular units. This is my take on tweaking the arms and wee bit to make them robust under extremes. Until I find my mock cut out sectioms to be welded in place for the upper control arm, this tweak is on the lower arm bushing end, as shown while in place. My main concern is with road salt, sinice this is intended for daily driven use, the bushing shell will be fully protected along with the arm end being reinforced at its weakest section. Firstly, I will be using scrap pipe sections to make a reinforcement around the outer radius of the bushing shell. It will be welded just below the curved edge, and follow along to seal the very end section, shown in the two pictures below. Since there will be one more reinforcement, for preventing wall fold over from twist and pinch, the open area under the reinforcement will not need any further work done to fully seal off around the bushing shell. There is the final addition to complete the tweak and fully seal and reinforce the end of the LCA. Here are the cut tubing and plate sections already fitted, ready for welding. Because the lower ball joint, and the pre 73 steering stop, along with the strut rod make the front of the arm super strong, no additional mods are required, unless you are not using properly lengthed strut rods and/or rubber strut rod bushings for extreme use. Then a boxed arm will be required. Since I eliminated a lot of LCA twist with oem components, and counter effects with poly bushings, only the end of the control arm requires some additional reinforcement. As for the UCA, it two has some needs for its bushing ends to be reinforced. Mainly because it takes a lot of abuse when things are stiffened up. Here are some UCA tweaks, still in the works, but they may left and right universal. Since the police versions only do one side, which makes them L and R only. Edited by 304-dude - Oct/26/2020 at 6:38pm |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Well, I am not sure but my android browsers are having trouble with my links on the top entry to my thread. Sometimes the links take me right to where they should go and other times somewhere in the middle of the page of replys.
If anyone has issues with the links... Just refresh the screen or go back and click on the link again. It seems to work, when the links act up, as it is random. I spent a bit of time redoing my links, just to make sure they are linked properly.
|
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Here are some pix of my setup on a mock up without suspension hump mod, so there is some negative camber.
My spring is compressed to be about the distance under vehicle weight with all 4 wheels on the ground. |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
" Only because I am moving the upper control arm position. I have done an
old Trans Am trick to lengthen the lower control arm a wee over 1.120
inches."
So if I wanted yo use Mustang II spindles with a rack and pinion and didn't do any of the other suspension mods (especially not moving the upper arm), the lower arms wouldn't require lengthening, correct? |
|
Frank Swygert
|
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
OK, I figured some would think moving and lengthening was all because I wanted to use a Mustang GT rack. To be honest it was the racks weak tie rods that made me look for other options. In finding a stout tie rod combo to fit SAE taper at the steering arm gave very few options, that required welding to fit the rack. As for the rack, it is probably the best fit for AMC lower arm spacing. As it is about 1/4" off from being perfect. Since the only other option I found that comes close to my modded rod sturdiness would be the options listed in the Specs section near the top. As for your question no lengthening or moving things to install Mustang II spindles. The only issue is the need to ream the lower ball joint mounting hole for the larger taper. Everything else is a cake walk. Since I found good parts to replace Mustang and Thunderbird components, the only issue is the need for threading the inner tie rod once it is shortened. I am not sure if it has as much thread as my modded 2006 Expedition tie rod. Cutting 1.25" off the Expedition tie rod threaded end is the the max for both full adjustment with lower arm and least amount of threads up the rod. With the direct fit 13" tie rod I would think it would need at least 1" of added threads once 2 inches have been cut. I am sorry that I could not make my instructions easier to follow, as I never intended to install a Mustang rack with stock spindles. I gave both instructions as to allow others to use what I find useful with what they have. I would have completed this long ago if I had been satisfied with the Thunderbird Mustang tie rod combos. They fit without mods but it is like the children's book Give a Mouse a Cookie... I find one thing at troubles me, and as I fix I find another... My suspension hump mod was a mix of issues. One being for modern wheels and tires, the other to add more competitive negative camber. The stock lower arm lost some negative camber when I compressed the suspension by using a Mustang / Torino spring perch. So moving the upper arm location and lengthening the lower arm will assist only for the type of lowering I chose and tires. |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
So, a 2.5" drop is not enough... What to do now?
Okay, after thinking about some info that I added to my OEM vs Dropped spring saddle, I thought about what if... In my mind would like to drop down to 3 inches, but the limit of a suspension drop with a spring perch, is safely set at 2.5". If one could drop to 3" or 4, they will end up bottoming out at the lower arm or tire against the trough. Any who... the option can go down to a 2" drop, on stock suspensions, with dropping plates on the spindles. The nice thing about dropping plates, are that they will not remove any head room for suspension travel. To drop down to the max, one could dial in the suspension drop with a mid height or short spring perch around 1" to 1.75", and finish the lowering with dropping plates. Fortunately for me, I can swap out my Mustang II spindles with lowered spindle, which will lower 2" more, and will need some changes done to correct for too much drop. That part will be figured out when that time comes for making the dropped spindle swap decision. This all depends on how the existing mods look over all, and how much room I have to play with. Just an open idea for now... Edited by 304-dude - Aug/17/2019 at 1:46pm |
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
304-dude
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/29/2008 Location: Central Illinoi Status: Offline Points: 9082 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I updated my sway bar modding page... It can be located via 1st post index, or skimming through page 2.
Due to the cost of procurement of new items for sway bar mounting, I have consumed my limit until funds appear from what lint I can sell on eBay. Hehehehe! Most of the cost what I'll need to do will be in the machining and welding. Cutting, forming the steel material can done with what I have available, not much but enough to anchor to the bottom of my spring perches. Seems like it took forever to get my rack setup completed with the modded tie rods. This should not take as long... Crosses fingers.
|
|
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons 78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low 50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension 79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker |
|
Post Reply | Page <1 23456 23> |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |