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450bhp 401 build?
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tumbleweed View Drop Down
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Points: 206 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tumbleweed Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2013 at 7:56am
any suggestions on what kind of rings to use?
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Originally posted by mcjarv mcjarv wrote:

  Now back to the original question, IIRC it was 450 street friendly HP with 9.5:1 compression without going all the way around the block to get next door, no strokers, no exotica, I still say that would be a stretch.  Wink

Mike
 
If looking at gross dyno numbers, a stock 401 made 430 lbf.ft. torque. Put a better intake, carb, headers and a bit of head cleanup should bump torque. So just need a cam to move the torque curve up in the range (peak torque 4500 rpm+/-) and voila! 450ish hp.  Around 230@0.50" or so intake duration should get you in the range ... maybe not quite ... but if it drives good, does it matter if it's off a bit? Others have posted some dyno examples early in the post that got the number without much exotica.
 
If looking for better streetability, stay with a bit less cam, AirGap and maybe a bit less stall. Since the OP has a 3000 stall and Torker, can run it with a bit more cam ... but may not be as fun cruising around on the streets and likely burn more fuel.
 
Hope this helps, RD
 
PS.  I have a Bullet 283/285@0.020", 248/251@0.050",0.616"/0.624" solid roller in my 401 with old TRWs and Indy SRs (so around 9.5:1) with an AirGap, 950hp Holley, 1 7/8" super comps and dual 3" exhaust. Is it an optimum combo?  Nope.  But I had the AirGap and short block and didn't want to buy a Torker or do a full rebuild with higher compression pistons.  Just wanted to try a roller cam ... so it runs fine on 91 octane and idles almost as well as the 224/234 hydraulic that was in it. 
 
Does it make 450hp?  Maybe ... maybe more ... maybe less ... but not a particularly cheap way to get there.  Is it a good street combo?  Not really, but sometimes we do things just for fun, not because it's the "right" way to build it.
 
Cheers, RD.
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Points: 741 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mcjarv Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/16/2013 at 10:01am
Originally posted by tumbleweed tumbleweed wrote:

checked my pistons and they are 21cc and not 17cc.  so this should put the compression ratio back to 10 3/4 with the eddy heads.   right?

There are numerous compression calculators available online, check em out, its easy, you will learn something and not have to worry about "lost in translation".

Good Luck,
Mike

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Originally posted by mcjarv mcjarv wrote:

This has been a very interesting and educational thread, thanks to all who have contributed. With that being said yesterday I thought I would do some elementary "checking" of my Eddy #7132 cam in my lathe. After finding some minor discrepancies like .002 overall run out and cam lifts off by .002-.003 I called James at Bullet and had a very nice discussion about my findings, the engine and it's purpose. (pro-touring street fun occasional drag)  I had every intention of sending my cam back to Summit and buying a cam from him, I had bought UltraDyne cams in the past when building hot rod boat engines at my dealership and they were VERY impressive. James words to me were "as much as I would like to sell you a cam what you have is pretty close to what I would recommend" and he was not very concerned about the "discrepancies". There was discussion about whether or not it was a "904" cam etc but overall he said run it, I also tried to research where Eddy gets their cams and read something about Engine Power Components (EPC) but I don't know for sure, may be the lowest bidder. 

I thought that was a 1st class thing for James at Bullet to do and told him that I appreciated his honesty and honor and that I would not forget.
 
 
 Finding a vendor that's like that is rare, Patrick at ProSystems carbs is that way too. It's obvious your not seeking a world record. Being you are inclined to investigate, I would be interested to hear how the timing events play out once the engine is assembled. Remember varience in lobe lift is magnified by 1.6.
 
 SKeown 
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Originally posted by tumbleweed tumbleweed wrote:

checked my pistons and they are 21cc and not 17cc.  so this should put the compression ratio back to 10 3/4 with the eddy heads.   right?
correct. Right around 10:736 +/- depending on block decking, rod resizing, etc. assuming the piston is stock 1:508 compression height.
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development
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is it ok to break in a 302-2 with the springs on the eddy heads or do i need lighter springs?
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Lighter springs are better to break in the cam with than heavy springs.  That being said I have never used lighter springs on a big cam during break in  but have never lost a cam so either I'm always very lucky or just used the correct break in lube and break in procedure.  On the other hand, I used to be able to say I had never fried a piston on any engine but my luck finally ran out on that one so maybe it is just good luck!  LOL

Edited by amx39068 - May/16/2013 at 3:23pm
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development
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any mods to the block i need to make before i go any further?  it will be 10 3/4 compression with eddy heads,big oil pan zero decked,302-2 cam,stock rods,need advice on intake,carb rockers and pushrods to match.
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If it is worth it,i could go solid cam.not afraid of lifter adjustments.
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  • Make sure the oil passage to the rear mains is drilled all the way through to the main oil journal in the block.  Many 390s and 401s only had partial flow in that are due to the passage not being drilled all the way through thus restricting flow to the rear two mains. 
  • Modify the front oil passage on the block into the front cover to be the same D shape as the front cover oil feed inlet passage. 
  • Make sure the plugs on the front of the block are the shallow ones rather than the deep ones.  The deep ones partially block the oil journal to the driver's side of the engine which affects both the lifters on that side as well as main bearings.
  • Make sure the oil inlet holes on the cam bearings are aligned with the outlet holes in the block
  • On the front cover oil pump housing make sure you have the proper pump lash and correct end play on the gears.  Also make sure the bottom of the pump housing is flat and that you have enough of the gears sticking out that the pump housing cover does not have too much clearance on the gears when you add the thickness of the gasket between the housing and the cover.  I like to only have 2-4 thousands end clearance less than the thickness of the cover gasket.  The gaskets made today from parts houses are .011 to .012 thick so if your pump gears only stick out of the housing by .005 - .006 then you will end up with too much end clearance beneath the end of the pump gears and the cover resulting in lower than desired oil pressure.
  • have the top of the block cleaned up and squared for good head to block seal.
  • If the crank is ground make sure oil bearing feed holes are correctly chamfored. Likewise make sure the radius edge on the crankshaft's rod journals are maintained and that the rear main journal has the correct .001 smaller diameter than the other mains.
  • Make sure the machine shop understands that this is not a Chebbie and that they hafve to look up specs for an AMC engine rather than assume they can do it the way they do an SBC engine.

I am sure others will add more hints and tips but those are the ones off the top of my head. 

Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development
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