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Rod Bushing service for 390...asap

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74Bubblefender View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 74Bubblefender Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/04/2013 at 10:07am
Bushing a rod is not a quick task if it is done right. You will need to clean up the bore first then size the bushing and a custom application can take a good deal of time and a good machinist. A jig must be made for these custom sizes or you risk collapsing the top fo the bushing as it goes in and even after rehoning you may loose the bushing, if your not careful.
 
Did you get it straitened out? I am very curious as to how its going and am rooting for you personally because I heard your story.
We are just about to forge new AMC V8 crankshafts.. please check here
http://www.bulltear.com/forums/showthread.php?19564
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plan B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 7:26am
So the update is as follows. sent the rods out to have them bushed at a place in Tulsa OK http://machineshoptulsa.com/   . I am paying 2nd day air both ways to get them back asap. My builder will be happy and I will be covered should something catastrophic happen down the road. 

I am up against hard deadlines with the baby on the way and the filming for TV of the trip home from the hospital in the AMX with the baby for a soon to be aired new performance automotive show. If the baby comes and the car is not done we have come up with a work around. I can tell you this much, when this TV show does air you will see quite a bit of AMX time and exposure for our brand. After meeting with the producers of this show (I have been helping to get this show to market for a few years) and telling them my story they were all over it. Now I just need paint, and my motor and we are on our way. 

If not for the AMC Forum and its generous members , and the support of my family none of this would be possible. My cousin has been driving this project with me since the 4th of July and we are so close to being done.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 8:31am
So how is bushing the rods gonna get you a press fit? Or are you now going to full floating, if so its no different than leaving it alone and running it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 8:57am
All of my Ford FE engines ran full floaters from the factory.  No bushings in the rods at all, just a chamfered hole at the top and steel to iron.  And that was on a cast rod.  Never an issue as that was factory Ford as new.  Do not bush them until needed beacuse you will cause more issues down the road.  FYI!!!

Edited by 69 ambassador 390 - Feb/05/2013 at 8:58am
Steve Brown

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69 Ambassador sst 390

84 Grand Wagoneer

69 Cougar XR7

65 Fairlaine 500XL

79 F-350 Super Camper Special



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amx39068 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 10:24am
Steve, 
I am not sure what you are referring to that bushing the rods will cause problems. If done right it is no more or less problematic than non bushed rods.

And as Tony stated, you should now run the pins fully floating as we discussed last week so make sure there is clearance for the pins to float when they bush them and use the lock rings that came with the pistons.  It will make a very nice setup that will outlast your ownership of the car.
Dan Curtis-Owner and CEO AZ AMC Restorations; Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amcmusclecars/ & Curtis Real Estate Development
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 12:16pm
 
 When the factorys overshot dimensions on the rods they dipped the ends in copper/tin to obtain proper size. We're hearing about successfully running floating pins on steel, the thought makes me cringe. With the more common pin sizes they are availiable in oversizes. My rod's bushings were loose, so I ordered the pistons and pins at .929 and had the rods fitted at .001".
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by amx39068 amx39068 wrote:

Steve, 
I am not sure what you are referring to that bushing the rods will cause problems. If done right it is no more or less problematic than non bushed rods.

And as Tony stated, you should now run the pins fully floating as we discussed last week so make sure there is clearance for the pins to float when they bush them and use the lock rings that came with the pistons.  It will make a very nice setup that will outlast your ownership of the car.
 
 
I was only stating that Factory Fords ran unbushed rods on the FE motors and they are always full floating with factory lock rings.  ALL full floating pistons MUST run lock rings whether factory or aftermarket.  A factory rod would rquire material to be removed for the bushing installation unless the custom piston was ordered with a smaller pin size.  That is not the case here.  The OPs' pin size seems to be undersize for a correct 2000lbd press fit and the correct option here for expedience is to hone the rods for a good full float and install as is with clips.  A better option would be to drill a small hole at the top of the rod also and chamfer for oil supply also.  No need to bush these rods at all, just hone.  What is the resistance to running full float on just the rod casting itself?  does everyone think the aluminum at the other end of the pin is harder and more wear resistant????  If you have an aversion to running stock style circle clips then you could use teflon buttons as well.  My Ford 390s and 428s all were happy with this non-bushed as factory supplied setup on cast rods.  Proven system and as Tony stated, works on our AMCs also.  Bush only as a last resort or for a race engine that will see multiple taredowns.  After bushing once, they are easily replaced and honed to size in the race trailer with hand tools and a press.  Heck, it used to be standard practice to purchas pistons and pins as seperate items and the hand fit the pins  individually.  Every mechanic had a piston pin hone set and it was a part of every rebuild or piston service.  In the early 1960s "PIN FITTED PISTON SETS" became the rage as manufacterers heaped out to press fit assemblies that eliminated a manufactering step.  They are cheaper to make but not better.   


Edited by 69 ambassador 390 - Feb/05/2013 at 5:50pm
Steve Brown

Algonac, Mi.

69 Ambassador sst 390

84 Grand Wagoneer

69 Cougar XR7

65 Fairlaine 500XL

79 F-350 Super Camper Special



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Plan B Plan B wrote:

So the update is as follows. sent the rods out to have them bushed at a place in Tulsa OK http://machineshoptulsa.com/   . I am paying 2nd day air both ways to get them back asap. My builder will be happy and I will be covered should something catastrophic happen down the road. 

I am up against hard deadlines with the baby on the way and the filming for TV of the trip home from the hospital in the AMX with the baby for a soon to be aired new performance automotive show. If the baby comes and the car is not done we have come up with a work around. I can tell you this much, when this TV show does air you will see quite a bit of AMX time and exposure for our brand. After meeting with the producers of this show (I have been helping to get this show to market for a few years) and telling them my story they were all over it. Now I just need paint, and my motor and we are on our way. 

If not for the AMC Forum and its generous members , and the support of my family none of this would be possible. My cousin has been driving this project with me since the 4th of July and we are so close to being done.
I really hope you sent the pins and pistons also.  The bushed rods must now be pin fitted to run proper clearances.  You will get back rough honed bushings otherwise and the final fitting will have to be done at assembly of the engine.  That is no problem if your shop has the tools.
Steve Brown

Algonac, Mi.

69 Ambassador sst 390

84 Grand Wagoneer

69 Cougar XR7

65 Fairlaine 500XL

79 F-350 Super Camper Special



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Plan B Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 6:18pm
Going to run full float after bushing the rods. Pins were sent with rods for sizing. I can't wait for this all to be finished.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/05/2013 at 6:26pm
Then you  are good to go as long as you marked the pins for the pistons.  Good luck.
Steve Brown

Algonac, Mi.

69 Ambassador sst 390

84 Grand Wagoneer

69 Cougar XR7

65 Fairlaine 500XL

79 F-350 Super Camper Special



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