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199 performance build |
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KermitDRambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/06/2007 Location: Cincinnati, OH Status: Offline Points: 2579 |
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I'm pretty sure you're going to have to use an early 80's or newer block. When the Eagle line came out, AMC added bosses for the brackets that locate the front axle. Matt
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tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6213 |
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I misread your origional post, I thought the limit was 335 ci, not 3358 cc.
You wrote 3358ci, I thought the 8 was a slip and you meant 335 ci, not 3358 cc.
Edited by tyrodtom - Oct/19/2012 at 8:00am |
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19677 |
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Wrong assumption on the pushrods and cam using a 4.0L head with an early 199/232 block. The cams are identical as far as the positions of the lobes and bearing journals, and they will interchange from 64-06. I used a 258 cam in my 4.6L stroker for a while. The only difference in the cams is that a 4.0L specific cam won't have a fuel pump eccentric on it (4.0L block has no fuel pump hole/boss, have to use electric). The shaft head has the rockers in the same position as the bridged rocker heads. The only difference is the deck height and the rocker ratio. The shaft rocker has 1.5:1 rockers, bridged has 1.6:1 rockers. Pushrods need to be checked for length due to the difference in deck height.
For what you're doing the first thing I'd do is take a bare 72+ block to a machine shop and ask them what they think about decking it 0.125". Might be doable. Check with the local Jeep guys -- you can probably find a block cheap or free, might have to take the whole motor. The problem with using V-8 rods is the big ends might be too narrow, you'll have to check. Running a bit narrower rod shouldn't be too big a deal, the V-8 guys run narrower Chevy rods in drag motors. Don't think I'd do it in a road race motor though. Another solution would be to order custom pistons with the pin height 1/8" lower. Unless there's a rod just the right length you will have to have custom pistons to match the pin height to the rods anyway. May as well cut your losses and just order pistons to fit the stock rods. Did you talk to TomJ about that T-5 adapter? Won't help if you want to run an auto though. And why worry about running the stock transfer case? If you're doing this much work you can locate a good transfer case to match whatever trans you use. The only difficulty would be if the t-case has the front shaft on the driver's side instead of passenger side -- that won't do in an Eagle! I wouldn't worry a lot about the axle support boss. It won't be to hard to fab up a support if necessary, but a 80+ block would be the best idea. |
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Frank Swygert
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HHaase
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/17/2012 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Yep, I came to the same conclusion with the pushrods on my end as well. Been a while since I've done this kind of swapping work. I do have to confirm the deck height change though, I think it may have been .25" higher instead of .125" higher. Difference in rod length between the low and high block 232's is .25" (6.125" compared to 5.875"). Even if I can shave a quarter inch off the block, will I still have enough thread depth for the head bolts? The thing about the stock transfer case is that I'm basing the whole project on the combination of the chassis and that particular AWD system. It has a degree of torque sensing to it, due to the viscous coupling, which will play out much better than using a later full-time box with an open center differential. I've driven a lot in trucks with the NP203 full time box, and if you break traction with one wheel.... you're stuck. Then you have to come to a complete stop to lock the differential, and once you're on hard surface again you've got to stop and unlock the diff again. Not a problem for goofing around on dirt, but a whole different story with racing. Haven't talked to TomJ yet, I got my head stuck on the connecting rod idea and just kept plugging away until I got tired last night. Will do that in a bit.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19677 |
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I think the head bolt holes would be deep enough, and it wouldn't hurt is they were 1/4" shorter. Hmm... you're right -- the deck of the block is 1/4" taller on the late model, not 1/8". Still, the deck might take it -- won't hurt to check. I was going from memory instead of checking again...
Understood on the transfer case. Custom pistons will be cheaper than custom rods. Egge Machine can put the pin wherever you want it. You might want to talk to 74Bubblefender about pistons. He gets custom pistons for the 4.0L. Dropping the pin 1/4" might be a problem, but I don't think so. He will know more about that though, or who to ask. If you find a rod that will work you may still need custom pistons to get the pin where you need it. |
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Frank Swygert
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HHaase
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/17/2012 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Well, dropping the pin 1/4" in the piston shouldn't be too much of a problem at all, since there's going to be plenty of excess cylinder length to work with. The block is made for a stroke of 3.8" or so, and I'll only be using a 3" stroke. So extending the skirt won't cause any problems.
That makes a solid Plan-A to just deck the block. Otherwise Plan-B is custom pistons. Even if I find rods that work, I don't think they will be regular pieces and raise too many questions. -Hans
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72AMX
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/07/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 476 |
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Wasn't there an Indy Car in the late 60's using a 199 ci 6-cylinder AMC turbo engine, i'd imagine any info you could find on that might prove helpful.
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tyrodtom
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/14/2007 Location: Virginia Status: Offline Points: 6213 |
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I have one of Dick Datsons old books, it has the rod journal sizes on both.
287-327 rod big ends 2.2483/2.2490 x .902 199 rod big ends 2.0948/2.0955 x .837 You could have the 199 crank's rod journals welded and turned down to the 287's rod journals size.
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66 American SW, 66 American 2dr, 82 J10, 70 Hornet, Pound, Va.
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19677 |
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TomJ has it. It was actually 182 inches. 199/232 block (same bore, remember!) with 199 crank and rods sleeved down to 182 inches. It was an "Armalite" cast steel crank, only a few of those done. Later 60s/early 70s cast cranks are pretty much the same thing.
See http://www.wps.com/AMC/. Scroll down to "Navarro Rambler Six". |
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Frank Swygert
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