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199 performance build |
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whalepirot
AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/15/2010 Location: SoCal Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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This display is at the NHRA Museum at Pomona (Ca) Dragstrip. Sorry they're fuzzy. |
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1955 Nash Rambler 2-dr 302/AOD
'55 F100 ('84 Vette susp/pwr '84 Shinoda Corvette 550hp 4+3 '89 BMW 735iL '95 BMW R1100S (bike) '99 ML430 '05 745Li '08 Smart Cabrio |
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HHaase
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/17/2012 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Ok, been back at this one a bit since I'm starting the build on the car. Mostly still planning on this one, probably won't start actually working on the engine for a few more months at the least, but doesn't mean I can't research in the interim. I may have found an off-the-shelf parts combo that can work... but I won't know for sure until I can do some test fitting. Probably try and pick up a couple old used-up pieces at first to confirm it all before buying full sets to build with.
Using a later tall-deck 258/232 block, with a 199 crank, 4.0 rods, plus pistons out of a Buick 225 should give me pretty much what I need. Not 100% drop-in though as the 225 pistons use a slightly larger piston pin. I'm pretty sure though that a 4.0 rod can spare .0088" When my head clears from all the number crunching, I'll re-run the math to make sure this combo measures out ok and try to calculate compression numbers. I'd like to hit around 9.5 or so, but there are too many other factors I haven't looked into yet to calculate it. Next numbers I need will be the chamber volumes of the stock 258 head and 4.0 heads. -Hans Edit: Ok, double checked the numbers.
Stock 258: Stroke 3.895, rod length 5.875, compression height 1.63 = total height of 9.4525" De-stroked 199 concept w/buick pistons and 4.0 rods: Stroke 3.0, rod length 6.125, compression height 1.835 = total height of 9.46" We've got a winner! Now to calculate compression ratios assuming going from the 74cc 258 head to the 56cc 4.0 head. -Hans Edited by HHaase - Apr/07/2013 at 6:43pm |
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HHaase
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/17/2012 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Scratch the Buick pistons. They're all dished, and heavily too, which would give me compression in the range of 7.5 with a 4.0 head. 258 head would be even worse, down in the 6's. Noooo thank you.
But at least I got the critical measurements I needed for having a custom piston set ordered. -Hans
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19679 |
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The late model 258 (80 or so through 89) has ~65cc chamber as the 4.0L. The earlier sixes had bigger chambers. I'd contact Bulltear about pistons. They should be able to get you custom pin height pistons.
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Frank Swygert
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HHaase
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/17/2012 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Yeah, was going to look into them or Ross and such. It's a decent change in the compression height, so it all depends on what they start from. From a raw billet it shouldn't be a problem, from a forged or cast blank it may be too much variation depending on the shape of the blank.
-Hans
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amc67rogue
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/05/2008 Location: Phx. AZ. Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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The CCs in the 225 piston are about 8CCs from a Ertel catalog. .8 CCs are on the average .8 in the compression ratio .
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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
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HHaase
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/17/2012 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Yeah, but are they actually available at all in that style? The only 225 pistons I can find anywhere right now are the sealed power models, and you could use those as an ashtray with the dish on the top.
-Hans
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amc67rogue
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/05/2008 Location: Phx. AZ. Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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Every buick V6 I've seen ,225 & 231 have same style dish. My post should read 8CCs not .8 .
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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
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Wrambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 4199 |
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When you get to the block, get one for a 87-90 Jeep Or 87-88 Eagle.
Those blocks have the flat side on the drivers side to match the flat side on a 4.0L head. no worries about the little triangular holes leaking or needing plugged, plus they come with an excellent cast aluminum, no leaks valve cover. Does anyone do a forged 225 piston? if so the dish could simply not be machined, but that would probably be too easy. |
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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler 4.0L, 5 speed 2015 Grand Cherokee Limited 2019 Chrysler 300 |
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HHaase
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/17/2012 Location: South Dakota Status: Offline Points: 100 |
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Hmmm, didn't know that about the late 258 blocks. Shouldn't be too hard to track down a 258 Wrangler either, they made enough of the things.
I've sent a couple e-mails to folks that advertise doing custom pistons for the 225 Buick and AMC I-6's, haven't gotten any responses yet though.
-Hans |
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