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Disc brake conversion

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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Disc brake conversion
    Posted: Mar/31/2017 at 5:50am
Yes, do get a TSM! AMc called their factory service manuals "Technical Service Manual" (TSM).
The only thing you need to do prior to that is re-torque the head bolts if you don't know when it was done last. The head bolts will work loose enough after about 20K miles that it can blow the head gasket, or at least leak enough to run the engine hot. Running hot is the first sign, and it may be too late by then. It's likely happened several times in a 50+ year old cars life, and the head is prone to cracking because of that and age. No special sequence needed -- just loosen one at a time and tighten down to 62 ft/lbs before doing the next one. You only follow a special sequence if you loosen all first then start tightening down. The owners manual and TSM say check the head bolts every 4000 and tighten every 8000 IIRC, but I drove one daily for 14 years and tightened every other year, which was every 12-15K miles, with no issues. The valve lifters are solid and need to be adjusted about every 10K or so also -- I adjusted every year, re-torqued every other year. If I couldn't remember if I'd re-torqued the year before I'd re-torque... so it got it every year at least a couple times.

Good heads are hard to find now, so re-torque it and keep notes!!! Even if it's a trailer/garage queen I'd re-torque that head every three years regardless of miles. Weather temps don't have as much effect as engine temps in backing the head bolts out, but does some. And easy to forget if you don't have a schedule and keep notes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2017 at 10:09pm
Originally posted by elmusso elmusso wrote:


Hi,
  New to this forum and new to being a 1960 Rambler 6 (i believe)  owner.
Looking for any tips or tricks I should know about while working on my car.



The most important and cost effective is purchase a TSM (technical service manual) for your car.
The 2nd most important, is once purchased follow the directions.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote elmusso Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/30/2017 at 12:01pm
Hi,
  New to this forum and new to being a 1960 Rambler 6 (i believe)  owner.
Looking for any tips or tricks I should know about while working on my car.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WARBED Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2016 at 4:26pm
Since your not leaking any fluid and also not loosing any,  like if it was filling the booster or seeping under the carpet and after a good bleeding then the concern is the master cylinder. Vacuum method works great but if you don't have a vacuum pump then engine vacuum works great as long as you have a catch can like uncljohn stated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2016 at 4:09pm
I too use a suction (vacuum)method of bleeding brakes. I have a small vacuum pump and a separation tank made from a coffee can and some copper tubing to separate the vacuum and brake fluid and plenty of vacuum line to set the apparatus next to me while standing at the master cylinder.
I hook the vacuum line to the brake bleeder with a few inches of vacuum applied and it will suck the brake fluid through the system from the master cylinder. I can watch for bubbles indicating a problem if any traveling through the clear plastic tubing and pour brake fluid in the master cylinder as it is drawn through into the waste container.
The down side if any, it uses a lot of fluid, but you get to "flush" the lines so I guess it is positive.
The up-side, bleeding brakes and looking for problems is a one man job.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2016 at 9:03am
To measure front to rear bias, use a torque wrench, adjust the bias so that the rears require about 5 lbs/ft less torque than the fronts to rotate them when the pedal is depressed to a point that still allows the rotors to be turned. Use a wooden dowel or stick (that's cut to the correct length) between the steering column and the pedal to get the correct pedal travel and rotor rotation resistance. This is an old road racers trick I've used for decades and it has never failed me. You can use farna's method of testing, although I have stopped doing that too because this method works so well.

It's pretty important to bench bleed the master cylinder
.
What everyone forgets is that the master needs to be absolutely level front to back while bench bleeding to ensure all the air inside the bore can be vented out.  Read the directions, it states this.

I have recently started using the suction method of brake bleeding. I use a large plastic syringe with a clear vinyl hose on it to connect to the bleeders. The syringe was purchased for correctly mixing small amounts of 2 cycle oil and gas for my chainsaw. I place a round or a couple rounds of teflon tape on the bleeder threads to seal them. If you try to bypass this step it will always appear to blow air bubbles into the clear vinyl hose as the fluid passing along side the threads sucks in air from around the threads..  I open the furthest from the master cylinder bleeder first and draw brake fluid out until no air bubbles appear. Then each bleeder respectively getting closer to the master cylinder until all have been bled. Do this repeatedly until no air bubbles show up in the clear vinyl hose. Make sure you check the master cylinder fluid level all the time. Letting it deplete too far will re-introduce air into the master cylinder bore and you will end up removing the master and bench bleeding it again.



Edited by White70JavelinSST - Dec/12/2016 at 9:13am
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2016 at 6:56am
You don't have to have the bias valve in the rear line. If the rears don't easily lock before the fronts on a gravel or wet (not standing water, but well wet) road/parking lot from about 40-45 mph in a panic stop you're fine. Do check it before lots of driving though. If it brakes straight even if the wheels lock up (four wheels locking is fine... will slide straight) from about 40-45 mph then a really hard stop, you're fine without a bias valve. If the rear end wants to come around without input from the steering wheel you need a bias valve. Dial pressure down until it brakes straight on a slippery surface.

As noted, the brake change won't make the pedal hit the floor. Probably just air in lines. You can fill the MC then open all four bleeders, and leave it sitting over night. That's called "gravity bleeding". I'd check after a couple hours and make sure the MC is still full though. If it's half full after 2-4 hours you should be okay. Then fill and bleed as normal. Gravity bleeding will get most air out, but not all. 
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote maximus7001 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2016 at 5:20am
Did your master go dry during the swap? If so you need to bench bleed it. I have a set of plastic "flare fittings" to cap the open lines/ports to keep the master wet. Really important with an old master.

Now what usually happens when bench bleeding a really old master the piston has to travel farther down the bore than it ever has before. That part of the bore is probably crusty and abrasive after all this time. See where this is going?

Edited by maximus7001 - Dec/12/2016 at 5:28am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1970390amx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2016 at 1:04am
Originally posted by cheynemitt cheynemitt wrote:

i installed the scarebird kit on my 1967 American. I cant get any brake pedal whatsoever. is it a must to put a adjustable bias valve in the rear line? if so, where do I get it and how do I install it

If your brake pedal goes to the floor and no pressure is developed you have air in the line a defective master or a huge leak. What did you use for a master cly? Did you bench bleed it thoroughly? Valves in the lines will only affect the way the pads apply, should not cause the pedal to go to the floor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cheynemitt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Dec/12/2016 at 12:55am
i installed the scarebird kit on my 1967 American. I cant get any brake pedal whatsoever. is it a must to put a adjustable bias valve in the rear line? if so, where do I get it and how do I install it
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