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High Compression E85 401 Build

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muttnïk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muttnïk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: High Compression E85 401 Build
    Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 9:31am
I am just getting started on a 401 E85-only build.  I am looking for more information and experiences from people who have built naturally aspirated high compression engine for use with E85.  Cam selection is one area in particular where I still have questions.  I want to maintain driveability and low end grunt.


Here is an overview of the current plan:
  • 1978 401 Block - 20-thou overbore
  • stock forged crank - 10-thou under
  • stock forged rods
  • forged dome pistons - 13.5:1 static CR
  • 3220502-2 heads - valves unshrouded, mild port work, stock valves, roller rockers
  • I plan to run a flat tappet cam
  • naturally aspirated, MegaSquirt MPI
  • Edelbrock Torker intake
  • ~50lb/hr fuel injectors
  • LC-1 wideband O2 sensor
  • fuel composition sensor
  • Ford EDIS-8 ignition - full ignition timing control by MegaSquirt ECU
  • Doug Thorley Tri-Y headers to 3" single pipe

Truck is a '79 J-Truck used as a tow rig / daily driver.
  • TH400
  • BW-1339
  • 3.54 gears
  • 33" meats
  • 42gal Suburban fuel tank + 18gal stock tank as a reserve with transfer pump

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Javelin74 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Javelin74 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 10:15am
Interesting project you got there.  Good luck!  You may need to search around on some other forums for that type of info regarding E85 information.  I'll be following this with a lot of curiousity.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 10:43am
My wife asked me why I did not do that when building the Eagle's 4.0.

I said I might try on another engine build - I've got a couple other engines to play with. (and if I can locate a cheap 4.0, it will go into the wagon and I might do an E85 build on that)

I'll be watching to see how you progress here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 10:44am
For camshafts e85 generally does well with 10 degrees more duration than with gas but as a tow rig with that much compression you may get into preignition quicker. I would contact Tim Cole at comp cams and discuss your goals with him and see what he thinks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcisworthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 11:00am
Dont know if its what you are looking for but I have a brand new solid lifter Comp cam for 100 dollars. I went with a bigger one.  Justin at race on e85 has a lot of knowledge about it. I am converting my car in a couple of weeks.  http://raceone85.com/ 
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farna View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 11:13am
Get rid of the Torker intake. It's primarily for making high rpm power. Best for towing is an Offenhauser 360DP (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/OFY-6056DP/). Even a factory iron intake will be better for towing. Don't do anything but clean up the bowl areas of the ports. Small ports work better for low rpm power. Some of the Jeep rock crawlers have even been using 304 heads on 360s. The small ports increase low rpm power, at the sacrifice of high speed power (say over 3500 rpm), but they don't need power way up there. Revving the engine up then grabbing something is a quicker way to break axles and such than low end grunt. Since this is a street vehicle and you need more volume with E85, I wouldn't recommend something so drastic as 304 heads. With regular gasoline it might be worth it. Everything else looks good to me! I second calling Comp or Crower to ask about cam selection -- need a pros advice there!

Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RADAMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 11:29am
I swapped my race car over to E-85 .It is 13 to 1 comp .
EFI
Runs good Pulls a couple hundred more on the stall.
One thing is when it is cold outside it is a mother to start.
not sure what that is all about .
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smills61074 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 11:50am
I posted a threat quite a while ago concerning E85.  Although it is a great idea, it is difficult to get gas that has a consistent mixture.  This will affect timing, detonation, etc.  I was dissappointed in the answers I got from everyone, but realize that unless it is a full blown race motor, the cost versus the performance is hard to justify.  The end result is cheaper gas, but you have to test each batch and adjust the octane accordingly.  I live in the midwest where there are plenty of E85 stations.  Please keep that in mind when you do your build.  E85 typically uses about 30% more fuel to get the same horsepower.  So, a 93 octane motor is what I am building.  I hope this helps you in your decision. 
68 Blue AMX Perfect California Body going for 401/6 speed
1 1/4 ton Power Wagon Ex Colorado Brush Truck
2006 Caddy CTS V with LS2 and manual trans Corsa Exhaust Beater car (daily driver)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tufcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 12:24pm
You may want to re-think the 3.54 gears or go with smaller tires.  3.73s or 4.10s would be better with 33" tires.  Even building the engine for low-end grunt, your RPMs will be too low at cruise.  Google a "gear ratio calculator" and play with ratio vs. tire size.

Bob
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muttnïk View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote muttnïk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/04/2012 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

Get rid of the Torker intake.


The Torker was not initially my first choice for this build.  I was originally thinking the Offy 5917 Equa-Flow.  The Equa-Flow almost looks like a MultiPort-Injection intake with its massive plenum and short runners.

I had not considered using a dual-plane intake for this build.  Since it is a dry-runner, my "build tech" and I decided on single plane and were not as concerned with runner velocity and keeping the fuel in suspension.

Also, my throttle valve at this time is a 2-barrel.  This project was originally going to be built with a 360 and the throttle valve I have is from a Dodge 5.9 Magnum engine.  Once it is running I was going to watch my vacuum readings at WOT to see if the throttle body is providing enough air.  Seems like the 6056DP would require a 4-barrel throttle body assembly?

What is your opinion of the 5917 or other single plane intakes for this application?  This is my first attempt at a multi-port injection conversion and I certainly do not have all the answers.


Edited by muttnïk - Apr/04/2012 at 1:21pm
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