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Starter Solenoids Keep Going Out

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RB401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RB401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Starter Solenoids Keep Going Out
    Posted: Jan/28/2012 at 9:17pm
My starter solenoid went out last week, so I ordered a new one from Pepboys.  It was a Borg Warner part, about $13.  (I am using the 5 pin solenoid for an automatic even though I run a T5 becuase I can use the 5th pin with the T5's neutral safety switch.) I install the solenoid, it works fine for about 2 starts and on the third start, apparently the contacts welded because the starter just kept spinning. I killed the ignition and frantically disconnected power to the starter. Figured it was just a bad part.  Call around and find another 5 pin solenoid at O'Reilys. Its another Borg Warner.  That one dies on the second attempt to start the car. No frozen contacts, but engine won't turn over.  Check Autozone and they have one thier (so called) Gold solenoids (about $22) in stock for a manual trans (4-pin) solenoid. Install this and all seems well, except, of course, if one were to accidentially start the car in gear, it would leap forward. (Not a good thing, would smash the car into the garage wall, or worse one could forget in a parking lot just as some small kid walks in front of the car.)  Autozone unfortuneatly does not sell a "gold" version of the 5 pin solenoid. 
 
Does anyone know of a higher quality 5-pin solenoid than the standard auto parts store stuff? 
 
One other thing, I recently installed a new battery.  It has 675 CCA and 835 CA.  I wouldn't be surprised if our cars originally had batteries with something like 500-600 cranking amps, so possibly the battery is just to much for a stock solenoid to handle.  Had this battery in the car about 4 months before the solenoid then in the car failed.  Don't recall what the cranking amps on the old battery were. 
 Anyone think the battery could be killing the solenoids?


Edited by RB401 - Jan/28/2012 at 9:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/28/2012 at 10:16pm
The B/W parts that they sell are imported and just a license on the name.  Complete junk.  I have a NORS Standard Motor Products SS-582 five terminal solenoid that I will not be using.  You could have it for $35.00 plus shipping.  The old box is nice and kind of kool if you save those things.    P.M. me if you want it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/28/2012 at 10:59pm
No, battery capacity won't do that. The starter will draw what it needs regardless, big battery or small, the solenoid will be passing the same amount.
HOWEVER, a bad starter could if it's drawing too much. Might not hurt to have starter draw tested at a parts store or shop. (on the car, test under load of cranking)
 
Frankly, I've not had the ford style solenoids go bad unless they were old, or fried due to too much starter draw. To have two go so quickly is odd, regardless. I know parts are cheap now days, but that's a bit much.  I"d advise to not walk under any ladders, stay clear of black cats, and don't touch any mirrors lest you break one.
I wired a switch in the clutch pedal so I have to depress the clutch to crank the engine on my Eagle. There was no NSS with my T5 but the Jeep computer has provisions for a NSS - it had a wire that needed to be grounded to allow the 4.0 to crank and start, so I used that and wired a switch to the clutch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RB401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 12:18am
Did some searching online.  The Standard Motors ss-582 is readily available from EBAY vendors.  AC Delco also made a 5 pin solenoid (Part No. C920), for AMCs and Jeeps. Said to be discontinued but possibly could be found by calling around.  I am also going to look into the starter draw issue.  Make sure all the connections are clean and tight and have it tested or see what an inductive ammeter costs.

Edited by RB401 - Jan/29/2012 at 12:40am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FuzzFace2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 11:14am
Why not push the pedal down every time you start the car wither it has a switch or not?
That is the way I was tought on ANY stick car or truck. Same with the brake in an auto car / truck.
This way you can use the normal 4 pin sol switch.
 
BTW I think it's the starter that is the issue not the sol. Have it tested as Billd said.
Dave ----


Edited by FuzzFace2 - Jan/29/2012 at 11:15am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by FuzzFace2 FuzzFace2 wrote:

Why not push the pedal down every time you start the car wither it has a switch or not?
 
YES! That's the best way - HABIT
Originally posted by FuzzFace2 FuzzFace2 wrote:

That is the way I was tought on ANY stick car or truck. Same with the brake in an auto car / truck.
This way you can use the normal 4 pin sol switch.
 
Same here, that's how my grandfather taught me, my parents, then again in driver ed.
 
Dave - I 100% agree, however, with my, well, um, "issues", common habits are even forgotten. It's why I put that switch on my car...... experience. I know exactly what to do, how to do it, and why it's important....... but.... getting that out where it belongs doesn't always happen.
It's why I have had my hands in a table saw and needed over 40 stitches in my finger and thumb, run a 1/8" drill bit through my thumb, cracked my knee cap across the middle in a ladder mishap, broken a toe 3 times, etc. 
I for one was happy when the feds said that you have to have a brake pedal interlock on vehicles so that you could not shift out of park unless your foot was on the brake.
 
Otherwise, it's really supposed to be habit - press the clutch, or with an auto, press the brake pedal. Thus the lack of NSS on sticks like my car, like the VW Bunny I used to have, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Peter Marano Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 2:14pm
I have seen that contacts weld together when the battery was less than ideal.

The stock motorcraft starter is a short circuit until the moveable pole shoe opens the contacts, perhaps the contact are the problem.


Edited by Peter Marano - Jan/29/2012 at 7:01pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 2:45pm
Agreed, Peter, because too low and it will draw more.
That is also a weak part of that starter design - that is indeed a heck of a draw and if that can't pull down completely, it keeps a heck of a draw on the circuit.
That's just a big washer coming across a couple of contacts inside the starter relay - they are the edges of the heads of the bolts that you connect the cables to.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 6:50pm
As above, I agree.............
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 73hornut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/29/2012 at 7:06pm
Missing ground strap? Had this problem repeatedly on my hornet until I replaced the ground from engine to frame. Also added 1 from neg post to body, no more problems.
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