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Correct gasket for Edelbrock Intake

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fmahannah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmahannah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 9:41am
OK I finally pulled the intake again to try using the paper Eddy gaskets and the valley pan.

Looks like it might be worse than I thought. The last time I pulled it I carefully cleaned all the old black oil and sludge out of the valley for a clean start. When I pulled the manifold, the oil pooled in the valley looked nice and clean until I pushed my finger through it. I did find one little piece of silver metal that looked finished on one side. Looking at what I can of the cam lobes I don't see any chips or damage, and lifters seem OK also. Might have been a leftover from when the cam breakin chewed up the old one piece bridged pivots, not sure.

BUT I also noticed when stirring up the oil in the pockets of the valley that there was a silvery metallic paste below the oil. Looks like metallic paint when you stir it up. I assume this is a bad sign but not sure what actually comes off a cam when you break it in?  Also read someone saying that the silver stuff is from break in oil, but I doubt that.

Also, looking through the ports into the head at the valves that are closed showed oil actually pooled around the valves, maybe a quarter inch deep?  No wonder I am smoking and going through oil so fast!

The question is could this much oil actually be coming through a non sealed intake gasket?  I know a lot of oil gets thrown around in the valley for the cam but this seems excessive? There was oil on top of the valley pan as well pooled where the drain hole is at the back of the pan gasket.

I really don't have the funds to tear this thing down if the silvery oil is a sign of anything more major than a trashed cam and lifters, even that would take some saving up before I could swap the cam again.

Is there any test I can do to determine where the silver metal came from?  Should it be magnetic if it is from the cam or the lifters?

I had also added some rislone to the oil in case I had rings sticking a bit, but I did not see any metallic additives in that when I added it. But it might have dislodged a lot of gunk left over from the cam breakin, at least that is what I am hoping for.


74 Javelin AKA Ghost
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmahannah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 10:05am
I just took a magnet to the silvery paste in the valley and it is not magnetic. Honestly I don't know what it could be other than aluminum. It is definitely silver not copper or steel colored.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 10:31am
To make sure the cam/lifters aren't damaged, pull the lifters out and look at the base.  If you have cam/lifter distress it'll be obvious on the bottom of the lifters.  As to the silvery 'stuff', somewhere I have seen that after a cam installation and thought that it was from the cam break in lube.  What you might want to try is taking a sample of the 'stuff', putting on a piece of white paper towel and washing the oil off with spray carb cleaner.  You can look at what's left with a magnifying glass and see what you're up against.  If it all dissolves in the carb cleaner, then it's not aluminum particles.  Just my TwoCents, again.
 
As to the oil consumption, I put a set of aftermarket valve covers on a BB Mopar once that did not have the PCV baffle.  Smoked so bad it looked like I was fogging for mosquitos.  So yes, I think you can pull that much oil through an intake gasket leak.


Edited by 6PakBee - Aug/20/2011 at 10:32am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 11:04am
Dig out a bunch of the silvery stuff and wash it with carb or brake cleaner through a coffee filter.  After drying look at it with a mgnafying glass.  You already know that it is not magnetic so its not iron and a cam break in issue would be iron.  No oils have silvery metal particles in them.  Not break in lube.  Take a map gas torch and a griddle or steel plate and heat the particles while watching them in the magnifiier.  Aluminum melts fairly high and it will take a few seconds for the particles to react and start to melt.  If it melts almost immediately it is tin/lead/tern coating and you then need to start saving because that engine needs crank work.  It is really starting to look like you have a whole bunch more miles on the car or engine than you think and a rebuild is in order.  Thats a lot of old looking engine even for 50,000 miles without ever having the oil changed.  At this point I think you are just chasing good money after bad and it's time to bite the bullet.  Just get another runner motor for a couple of hundred and then do your possably original motor when you get the funds.  A 304 should be easy to find for almost free.  I'm sorry to say it but after thousands of motors that I have personally seen inside I think you need to take another approach here.  I am not saying that is not your original motor but it is sooo dirty for 50,000 miles that you need to got through it anyways.  Forum members should be able to help you with good parts or an engine and keep the cost down.  especially if you want to stay with a 304 or 360.  Sorry,  but just a experienced oppinion and although not want you want to hear I beleive you need to hear it.  I will help you anyway I can and others will.  take this as an opportunity to make your car better for the future.  Metal sludge is about as good as a heart attack.  Don't ignore it or the heart of your car will die and we don't want that.  I am sure we can do some searches on the internet and find you an engine for little or nothing you could drop in.Unhappy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irish13jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 12:09pm
Aluminum rocker bridges,not getting good oil to the rockers. Check the rocker bell cranks for wear and all the push rod holes to make sure they are all clear . Your gonna have oil in the valley pan do to the push rod passage holes. You won't get metal from the bottom end in the valley all metal will be from above that point. Oil on the valves are from bad seals and your gonna need a valve job
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmahannah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 12:39pm
I scraped up as much as I could of the silvery paste that was left and put it into one of my wifes nice water glasses Wink

I then washed it all down to the bottom with brake cleaner. Added enough brake cleaner to let me shake it all around and clean it thoroughly. Then filtered it through paper towels and let them dry. Put the remains onto a white paper plate and looked through a magnifying glass. Whatever the silver looking stuff was actually dissolved and washed away with the brake fluid. What I was left with was just little bits of carbon and one little sliver of aluminum from when it chewed up the old bridge pivots. None of what remained was magnetic, and I could crush the larger little tiny bits into powder.

Looks like I might have been freaking over nothing. So I am going to throw it back together with proper gaskets and see what happens. No funds for another engine since I won't settle for anything less than a 360-401, so if it is not still blowing oil I will drive it until it gives up LOL, and save some money for when that happens
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmahannah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 12:41pm
Originally posted by irish13jeff irish13jeff wrote:

Aluminum rocker bridges,not getting good oil to the rockers. Check the rocker bell cranks for wear and all the push rod holes to make sure they are all clear . Your gonna have oil in the valley pan do to the push rod passage holes. You won't get metal from the bottom end in the valley all metal will be from above that point. Oil on the valves are from bad seals and your gonna need a valve job


I had already chewed up the old aluminum bridges and replaced everything with the newer steel components. There is no doubt I have aluminum in the engine since I had lost about .20 off the aluminum bridges
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote irish13jeff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 1:02pm
You can replace the valve seals without taking the head off and that will help with the oil burn. Just remove the spark plug and pressurize the cylinder with a fitting adapted to a air hose. Then you can remove the valve locks and springs ,then replace the seal
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69 ambassador 390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 1:53pm
He already did that.  If the originality is not an issue then go ahead and run her till she blows.  If the cam is still good it will work in another engine alnong with the new T-Chain and of course the intake and the rockers, ect.  You actually have a good start on the next engine already.  No harm, No foul.  The glittery stuff was carbon that can be veru shiney.  Metal would not have desolved in cleaner.  Run the FIBER gaskets and see what happens.  Good luck.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fmahannah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Aug/20/2011 at 1:53pm
Seals are already new as are the rockers, springs, retainers. springs, locks, pushrods, lifters, and cam.
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