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Marvel Mystery Oil as a Lead Substitute? |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Not to be confused with the Benzites, eh, Ms. Edmonds?
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SEdmonds
Moderator Group Joined: Jun/21/2009 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 8194 |
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mramc
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/12/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3217 |
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Marvel Mystery Oil is top end lubricant , not an octane booster. Tetra-Ethel Lead is not an octane booster either. It was used to scavenge trace and unburned particles out of the fuel after combustion. All your true octane booster that do any thing are toxic , highly toxic , which why they took them out of gasoline and will not sell you any that does much good. The octane is in how the fuel is refined and what "CUT" it is is. Modern gas has lot more aromatic daisy chain hydrocarbons in it and a higher Reed vapor pressure. Works OK in modern fuel injected engines , not so well in old carburetor-ed engines, as they also use too much ethanol in the gas. Ethanol evaporates pretty easily , especial the more you have and older it gets. Most gas has about 10 to 15% these days.E-85 has as much as 85 % ethanol, but out west here it's more like e-40 or 50 . Ethanol much more readily evaporates then pure gas which basically can not get any more. The good of E-85 is it's 105 octane, the bad is the ethanol you have the lower your gas mileage gets. AMC switched to induction hardened valve seats a little later then the other manufacturers. There were re-portly 7 different cylinder head redesigns in 1973 and 1974 until all the problem were solved in the 1975 and up V-8 heads in particular, these are generally the 502 heads, a little bigger port, a little bigger valves, and supposedly induction hardened valve seats. AMC generally did not have head problems other then those 73/74 heads, which most people learn to stay away from. LRDaum
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LRDaum
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69 ambassador 390
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/22/2009 Location: Peoria, AZ Status: Offline Points: 3539 |
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It's amazing how tertra ethyl lead was used to reduce emmissions way back at the turn of the century? Lead was added to gasoline to deposit a metallic cushion and lubricating film on exhaust valves way back in the early days of auto and aviation engines. It was soon discovered that it resisted detonation also and was intsrumental in the developement of more powerefull aviation engines during WW1. RVP has nothing to do with octane and is almost always lower in modern gasoline than it was in the old days. Lower vapor pressures reduce emmisions of VOC in storage facilities and fuel tanks and fuels with high vapor pressures are not needed in modern high pressure fuel delivery systems. Where did you get your information. There is a very good article on RVP and specific gravities as well as othe things relative to custom blending of racing fuels available from Torco and I beleive Sunoco has some litteriture also. You are actually in error on many of your assumptions. As far as the induction hardenning, Where is that info from? The size of the valves was only increased from 1.625 to 1.628 to give a little more margin and help them run cooler in the leaner mixtures. There is not really any difference in the seat area. Please provide proof so we can switch to the perfected heads. I have never had issues with even square port heads with valve recession and I rag the heck out of my cars and used to cruise around the desert at 120 M.P.H. on unleaded and no additives.
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Steve Brown
Algonac, Mi. 69 Ambassador sst 390 84 Grand Wagoneer 69 Cougar XR7 65 Fairlaine 500XL 79 F-350 Super Camper Special |
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jeremy0711
AMC Addicted Joined: Dec/12/2008 Location: Southern IN Status: Offline Points: 1547 |
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I have heard this myth of AMC heads have some better hardening process while being made but every set of 291s, 993s, and 502s that I have had needed new seats. There were several valves that were sunk meaning it needed hardened seats for it was wearing down. |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I'm with 69/Steve.
I've dealt with ICEs since about 1970, and because I've dealt with antique engines and cars, and have friends in the petrol industry (and an uncle who worked in the oil fields) have done some studies on petrol as well as I love automotive history in general. Check the facts on ethanol blends, too. This is urban legend and myth that the content varies so much. There are laws and restrictions and if your state is like Iowa, they actually TEST. And if the content is off by xxx, then it's as bad as selling 3/4 of a gallon at the pump and showing it as a gallon. It's the department of agriculture here that does it. By law, the content of e10 can't be more than 10%. In fact, they are studying now to possibly allow up to 15% ethanol. Right now, it can't be more than 10, but ISU and others have done studies showing that most cars won't see a difference between 10% and 15%. There's so much garbage (that's too nice, it's really $%!*) being spread and published about gas in general, and this "I heard" or "I read" as far as gasolines, ethanol, etc - I'd frankly like to see where anyone found it was actually tested and published and not hearsay from some shadetree mechanic with no real experience, actually tested and verified 15% or more, or that E85 was actually less than 85%, especially as low as 40%. At least in Iowa, it would cost them a bundle because of the HUGE breaks they got for using ethanol. And this state works it so that it's advantageous to the blender to get it right. Jeremy - you must have gotten your hands on the worst AMC heads out there.......... honestly. I worked on all brands back in the 70s and 80s (started mostly with AMC), and no-lead and ethanol came here pretty quickly. Can't say I've had any worse issues with AMC heads than ANY other heads I've ever worked on. In fact, I had to do more seat work on Ford and Chevy in the early 80s than any other cars. We worked on all brands, from Datsun to Porsche/VW to Ford/Lincoln, Buick junk, you name it, never saw AMC as better or worse at all. ICEs were used originally mostly for farm and industry, automotive got the technology last, so think of the real reasons for lead in the gas.......... Engines were developed for NON-auto uses well before cars were even a thought. |
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Peter Marano
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Kenosha WI Status: Offline Points: 1650 |
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Should have typed 'valve recession occurs at high engine output'. |
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stonedblue
AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/13/2008 Location: AMCville,Pa. Status: Offline Points: 511 |
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Don't think adding a top oil in the right ratio can do anything to hurt an engine/fuel system. For years we raced methonal fueled sprint cars without top oil and dispite proper mantainance we rebuilt Hilborn fuel pumps 3-4 times a season. Once we started using top oil, fuel pumps lasted all season.Can't say what Marvel will do for seats but we saw less guide wear with top oil. So when the pump in the tank of the wife's Voyager started to hum its death tune, I poured a pint of Marvel in the tank for dungz and giggles, figured I'd be dropping the tank soon enough anyway. The pump hushed and is still in there 2 months later.
LOL....dungz = Sh itz.... Edited by stonedblue - Aug/04/2010 at 9:12am |
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I can build an engine, but, I can't drain oil without a mess.'04Ram,'99Plym.Van,"96Exploder,'79Dodge pickup, '71Jav. '68Jav, and '90 Gold Rush trailer
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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methanol - a "drying agent", I use alcohols to clean the greases, dirts, oils, such off machines used around fabric as they clean well, leave no real residue, remove all traces of oil or grease and don't transfer anything to the fabrics. So I can imagine any lube, esp MMO, added could help a bit. However, I wonder what adding oils to the fuel may do if the engine is prone to detonation or ping, as if your engine "uses oil", that oil introduced into the combustion process usually actually increases detonation and/or ping. Probably not an issue with racing, however.
We used to add it a lot ourselves back in the 70s. Geesh, we used it on our air tools, too! Kept a small squirt bottle of MMO in the toolbox to use with impact wrenches, air chisels, etc. |
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