TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Head flow
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

Head flow

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
Author
Message Reverse Sort Order
jcisworthy View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/23/2009
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcisworthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Head flow
    Posted: Sep/04/2020 at 4:58pm
Very nice!
How much did they raise the intake runners on those heads? 
Specializing in dyno services, engine building, and cylinder head porting

rbjracing.com
Phone Number 518-915-3203
Back to Top
Hurst390 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Apr/20/2008
Location: secret
Status: Offline
Points: 5752
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2020 at 3:51pm
I'm using them on a Kaplan block I found a few years ago. New never used from an ex AMC engineer. 
SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal
Back to Top
Hurst390 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Apr/20/2008
Location: secret
Status: Offline
Points: 5752
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/04/2020 at 3:43pm
I picked up a few more sets of trapezoid heads earlier this year. 2 sets are canted valve(slightly) and one set inline. I also got 1 original edelbrock spider intake with the heads and another unmachined from another gentleman. I plan on building a 426 around the inline set of heads that have 2.125 intake valve. Those heads have a custom heavily reworked torker. Nice on the inside,not so much externally. 
SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal
Back to Top
jcisworthy View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/23/2009
Location: North Carolina
Status: Offline
Points: 2805
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jcisworthy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/21/2019 at 5:45am
Originally posted by Randall Racing Randall Racing wrote:

[QUOTE=trrowe]You don't have that much flow because Dean Turk didn't do your port work. When Don Garlits came out of retirement to attempt to break the 300 mph barrier he chose Dean Turk to do all the port work on his cylinder heads and manifolds. Thats how good he is. He has turned away work for years because he's always swamped with work. He will only do port work for true enthusiasts and always achieves the best flow numbers. Dean has been retired for many years, but still does the best port work in the country for a select few. He was a pioneer and early dominating force in the early 60's, First in a Pontiac powered Fuel dragster and later with a Crysler Hemi Fuel dragster.If you don't know of Dean, then you missed out on a truly fine human being that would be just as excited as you are to see you (and help with the best possible porting) tweak as much performance as possible out of your AMC.
 I'll never forget hearing a deafening roar from my shop, and running outside to see Dean smiling and tuning Eddy Hill's Top Fuel dragster right before Eddy retired.
 No finer cylinder head, intake manifold porting guru has ever lived. He always did extra work for the regular "Joe." especially if you wanted performance from a platform that wasn't the typical "performance" vehicle.
Thanks, Dean, Ed, Bill, Jerry.....
 
Yes.... Dean Turk is the man...  My family has worked with Dean since the 60's and all the heads on every Race car or Race truck we have built in the past to current have been sent to Dean...
My heads for my 74 Gremlin 401 X-R are on there way to Deans as we speak...  Amazing Work.

Porting cylinder heads boils down to shapes, sizing and valve job. Nobody has the market cornered because of that, some just do it better than others
Specializing in dyno services, engine building, and cylinder head porting

rbjracing.com
Phone Number 518-915-3203
Back to Top
PHAT69AMX View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/07/2007
Location: West Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 5903
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Feb/20/2019 at 2:20pm
"Woke Up" this AWESOME old informative and revealing thread!

Ken Parkman, if I may ask...

Have been trying to find your much appreciated write up text
from the various CARBURETOR FLOW TEST on Fran's old forum.
It is a great loss for the AMC Community that that forum is now gone.

I successfully found Page 1 of that old thread using the Wayback Machine
and saved your posted info from page 1...   but...
Page 2 with 4 more post and some more of the info from your work
is NOT saved on the Wayback Machine that I can find...

May I ask,
might you happen to have your Oct 2008 CARB FLOW TEST text saved?

Any chance it can be re-posted here or elsewhere?

Thank You for all your work, shared knowledge, and valuable time.

--------

Here is what Ken Parkman CARB FLOW TEST Text from the other
now gone Forum I was able to get from the Wayback Machine and save:

Ken_Parkman
Carb flow test
02/09/08 at 22:39:45

For various reasons there seems to be a lot of carburetors
around here right now, so I decided to put them
all on the flow bench for comparison. 
 
My flowbench cannot effectively measure a carb cause to do it right
 you need to have a bench that will suck the roof off the shop and
 has a direct power supply from the generating station.
But what I can do is run the bench wide open and then put on different carbs
 and measure the pressure drop, and then I can compare one to another.
 I could check an individual barrel, but that takes fixtures
 I don't have and can't be bothered making. 
 
As you know there is way more to carbs than flow - a point that
 has really been hammered home to me with some dyno and track testing.
 Also as you know factory ratings are pretty much meaningless
 cause they are marketing more than anything. So this is an effort
 to see how much some manufacturers are exaggerating. Do not use this
 data to say one will make more or less power; it's only for interest. 
 
So here is the list of different carbs and their ranking
 flow wise, smallest to largest: 
 
Rank/Carb/part number/rating/comments 
 
 1   Edelbrock   1405   600 
 2   Holley      1850   600   Significantly more flow than Edelbrock 600 
 3   Q-jet       ?      ?     Secondary air flap has a stop to limit opening 
 4   Holley      4777-2 650 
 5   Edelbrock   1407   750   Slightly more than 650 Holley 
 6   Edelbrock   1813   800   Big improvement over 750 Edelbrock 
 7   Q-jet       ?      ?     Secondary air flap opened noticeably more than above Q-jet 
 8   Holley      4780   800   Same dimensionally as a 750,
                              but this carb had a slight TB mismatch. 
 9   Holley      3310   780   Factory GM original 3310, down leg booster 
10   Holley      3310-2 750   Strait booster than above, flows a little better but close 
11   Pro-Systems XC     ?     Built for a mild 327 Chev, noticeably more flow than above Holleys 
12   Holley      4781   850   No choke plate 
13   Holley      80514  1000  Annular booster carb, very small flow difference from 850 
14   Pro-Systems XE     ?     Down leg booster, very significantly more flow than 1000 Holley 
 
A couple of comments: 
 
The Edelbrocks flow significantly less than the same rated Holley 
 
Holley plays games with flow ratings.
Yes a 750 Holley flows more than a Holley 800.
I've heard it before, but this seems to confirm
 a 850 Holley is a lot bigger than a 950.
 Dimensionally the 850 is bigger.
 The 850 with no choke and a Stubstack was essentially identical
 to the annular booster 1000. 
 
Stubstacks noticeably improve the flow. 
 
A fancy CNC milled 2" spacer slightly improves the flow. 
 
The Q-jets were flowed with an adapter that slightly restricted the flow,
 but calibrating with a Holley says the restriction was not much. 
 
I'm going to try to get a few more carbs to add to this list,
 including a factory AFB and MotorCraft.
-------------------------

Ken_Parkman
Re: Carb flow test
Reply #6 - 02/10/08 at 17:10:59

Trying to find some stock AMC stuff, just don't have any here!
 I hope to score a stock AFB and a 4300 to test, I'll post if it happens. 
 
What Reagam said is important. A high flow carb is no good
 if it can't properly atomize fuel at a low delta pressure.
 Only take this data as an interesting comparison. 
 
Of course a really good carb is both high flow and
 can properly control the mixture at a wide rpm and load range.
 A simple flow test cannot tell this.

--------------

Ken_Parkman
Re: Carb flow test
Reply #8 - 02/16/08 at 18:22:16

Those were 2 different Stubstacks, both K & N.
 One is very old (been through a carb fire)
 and has been modified to better fit the 850,
 which seems to have a different height air horn
 then the Stubstack  was designed for.
 The other is an almost new one made from
 a different plastic and fit the 750 very well.
 Both noticeably improved flow,
 but clearly the bigger 850 really liked it, the flow was well up. 
 
The spacer is a really trick CNC milled 4 hole
 translating to an open with a nicely flared 'bullet' in the center.
 But now that I am carefully looking I find it has slightly small bores
 on the 4 hole part. I'm gonna fix that and try again. 
 
Just scored a couple of Demons, a good prepped dyno 750 Holley,
 and a stock AFB. Hope to have a MotorCraft
 and a few more Holleys tomorrow. Will post info 

-------------

Ken_Parkman
Re: Carb flow test
Reply #14 - 04/28/08 at 02:32:16

I FINALLY managed to score some stock AMC carbs
 and get all the data together. I've had 29 carbs
 across the flow bench and it is an interesting exercise. 
 
I've learned carb flow numbers are a game.
Do not assume a carb is bigger because it it rated higher.
The highest flow 750 carb was 150 cfm better the lowest flow 750. 
 
A surprise is the stock MotorCraft 4300.
I scored a OWA4-S, and it's surprisingly good flow wise.
It looks crappy, but flows a tiny bit better
 (not enough to give a number)
 than a Demon 625 or an Edelbrock 600, both of which are pretty much the same.
 A Holly 600 is about 40 cfm better than the BG and the Ed.
 The stock AMC AFB (tested # 4664) is about 40 cfm less
 than the same BG and Ed Carbs.  The Ed 600 is an AFB and is basically
 the same carb as the stock AFB. It has the same bore's and venturi's,
 but the Ed has 1/2 throttle shafts and a little aerodynamic fairing
 to account for the 40 more cfm.
 The 4350 MotorCraft is the same as the stock AFB. 
 
I scaled the carbs on a 0-100 scale, and here are the small carbs 
 
Edelbrock 750   (1407) - 71 
Holley 700      (4778) - 71 
Holley 650      (4777) - 69 
Rochester Q-jet (xxxx) - 67 (small one)
Holley 600      (1850) - 65 
MotorCraft 4300 (xxxx) - 61 (OWA4-S)
Barry Grant 625 (xxxx) - 61 (Road Demon)
Edelbrock 600   (1405) - 61 
Carter AFB      (4664) - 57 
MotorCraft      (4350) - 57

---------------

(4) MORE POSTS ON PAGE 2 -> BUT NOT ON WAYBACK MACHINE !

-------------------


Edited by PHAT69AMX - Feb/20/2019 at 5:00pm
Back to Top
Randall Racing View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Jul/03/2012
Location: Mesa,Az
Status: Offline
Points: 228
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Randall Racing Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/05/2012 at 2:00pm
Originally posted by trrowe trrowe wrote:

You don't have that much flow because Dean Turk didn't do your port work. When Don Garlits came out of retirement to attempt to break the 300 mph barrier he chose Dean Turk to do all the port work on his cylinder heads and manifolds. Thats how good he is. He has turned away work for years because he's always swamped with work. He will only do port work for true enthusiasts and always achieves the best flow numbers. Dean has been retired for many years, but still does the best port work in the country for a select few. He was a pioneer and early dominating force in the early 60's, First in a Pontiac powered Fuel dragster and later with a Crysler Hemi Fuel dragster.If you don't know of Dean, then you missed out on a truly fine human being that would be just as excited as you are to see you (and help with the best possible porting) tweak as much performance as possible out of your AMC.
 I'll never forget hearing a deafening roar from my shop, and running outside to see Dean smiling and tuning Eddy Hill's Top Fuel dragster right before Eddy retired.
 No finer cylinder head, intake manifold porting guru has ever lived. He always did extra work for the regular "Joe." especially if you wanted performance from a platform that wasn't the typical "performance" vehicle.
Thanks, Dean, Ed, Bill, Jerry.....
 
Yes.... Dean Turk is the man...  My family has worked with Dean since the 60's and all the heads on every Race car or Race truck we have built in the past to current have been sent to Dean...
My heads for my 74 Gremlin 401 X-R are on there way to Deans as we speak...  Amazing Work.
 
Cory Randall
74 Gremlin 401 X-R

Back to Top
SuperStockAMX View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice


Joined: Dec/29/2009
Location: Anthem, Arizona
Status: Offline
Points: 237
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SuperStockAMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/14/2010 at 11:39am
Originally posted by Class Guy Class Guy wrote:

Originally posted by SKeown SKeown wrote:

 
 Class Guy, I suspect welding a piece of cylinder wall into the exhaust pocket, then conforming it into the port to match the others would be frowned upon.
What you describe is past questionable; it would definitely get you disqualified.
 
 
Originally posted by DragRacingSpirit DragRacingSpirit wrote:

Since the Indy head is the best flowing head that us AMCers have access to they must not be totally clueless.
 
What they lack in finesse, they make up for in volume.  A sewer pipe does not have to flow well, just enough.

The cylinder heads that flowed the "impossible" 270 CFM had the heat riser ports filled / welded per allowable rules and were confirmed by NHRA tech. In fact the car was teched above and beyond normal tech. I would bet money that Class Guy could obtain the same results. 
Back to Top
SKeown View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/30/2009
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 3085
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2010 at 2:18pm
 
 Drag racing a class car is like endurance sports. Even though steroids are banned, I doubt a single gold medal has been won by anyone without them in the last 40 years. I've run 13 marathons and raced bicycles throught the US, Canada and Europe, I can assure you that's the way it is.
 
 If trick valved and seats could provide a 45 CFM gain, more would be doing it.
 
 SKeown
Back to Top
Ken_Parkman View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: Jun/04/2009
Location: Ontario
Status: Offline
Points: 1815
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ken_Parkman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2010 at 11:33am
As well the throat area of the bowl area is the unfilled part on the trapezoid mold. We had a leak in the casting during the pour and there wasn't time to do another. There actually was not enough time to do that one, we had to take it out before the material was set. The stuff I use really needs 24 hours to properly set.
 
So the mold is decieving, there is more ss than it looks. The trapezoid is a race piece with way more capability than stock. I really like the csa through the middle.
Back to Top
Hurst390 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Apr/20/2008
Location: secret
Status: Offline
Points: 5752
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hurst390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/13/2010 at 7:54am
As for Jeffs ss heads...I beleive that his MACH man did get 303cfm...from what i hear from highly reliable sources is that he is a genius....as far as 270 out of his stock head i believe that also..but the problem is that most likely porting was done( I sure can't prove it..lol) with methods to make it look like no porting was done...those are tricks as old as class racing itself...thats why Jeff has to spend the kind of $$$$ on the heads he runs...cheating...you can call it that...but when everyone does it in some form and you want to be competitive then eventually your going to have to read between the lines...thats class racing of any kind....
Hammer on me all you want but that is my opinion...like it/him or not...
as for ss racing...there will soon be the 1st SS/B AMX in the 8's..The HP is there to do it..he has to get it to the track and get the car worked out....this is an nhra SS legal engine....

Edited by Hurst390 - May/13/2010 at 7:59am
SC/Hurst Rambler

11.62 120

100% Street Legal
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123 8>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or