TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > Suspension, Steering, Brakes & Wheels
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - 69 AMX Upper ball joint conversion
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

69 AMX Upper ball joint conversion

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
69AMX364 View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Jun/07/2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69AMX364 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: 69 AMX Upper ball joint conversion
    Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 4:27pm
Can you put upper ball joints on a 69 amx? Yes and not as hard as replacing all the inner fenders to a 70 model. Why? Unpleasnt springs could be a cause. Too stiff and too tall (at least to me) OEM front springs were removed about 1975 and put on a shelf till about 1985 and they took a set. oops. Once the motor was put back in the car they really never settled down.
So how would you change from the trunion to a ball joint?
Start by getting a 70 or later spindle, they just bolt on. I used Ebay. I thought I had a drum set from a 74, but I was mistaken. About 30 bucks.
Next you need a upper control arm. I started out with http://rightfootperformance.net/catalog/pdf/upperaframe.pdf
as a kit 9905 without the crossshaft. About 180 bucks.
Now I had to modify this 10 degree control arm. It needed to be 8.25 inchs across center to center instead of 10 inch (from a chevlle to a amc spec). I first tried the press to get this dimension. Then I figured out that while you could you can't. The ball joint ring was the weak link unless maybe you left a ball joint in. Which you could do, but you would never get it out.
So I used a plasma cutter to remove the ball joint rig and using the unchanged arm to make a jig. Ball joint rings (small sleeve threaded) about 20 bucks.
Moog ball joints marked 5485 were bought for 40 bucks. I had a new very old ball joint in my toolbox for about 20 years and it fit the upper ball joint taper nicely. This joint is also Duralast FA395. Upper ball joint ordered for 70 model challanger. The stock car ball joints now marked 5485 did not fit the upper joint, never figured out what changed and when.
Now for the length of the arms
Center of the ball joints to the weld on threaded bushings is about 6 3/8. With the rod ends that worked out to a total 8 3/4 from grease fitting to center of 5/8 rod ends.
Since the AMX used 1/2 inch bolts on upper control arm a 5/8 bronze bushing to 1/2 was used.
about 15 bucks including shipping.
Now the rod ends are not the same width as the bushing so you need 1 1/4 inch of thick walled tubing is needed per bushing. These were used to center the rod ends in the openings. Also any changes were used to increase caster in a positive direction. Per side you need 4 bushings - 2 5/8 length and 2 custom lengths for 1 1/4 inch. If your jig is perfect and the welding heat shift is figured in then the bushings could all be the same.
 I did call Right Foot Performance and they could sell the kits un welded, which would save a bunch of work. But they could not sell a kit form with 8 1/4 centered, due to the work needed and volume. this unweled kit will be cheaper then what I paid.
If I find out how to post pictures I will.
The rim width coud be changed much wider if desired.
Still working on the QA1 shock and spring setup
 
This mod could be reversed if needed.
Back to Top
mramc View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/12/2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 3217
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mramc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 5:36pm
OK let me throw my 2 cents worth of thoughts on the subject out. One some one is planning on making lighter control arms for AMCs of this period. Looks over this web site and the other AMC forum and you should find it. I'm not going to do that for you and I'm not sure where they are at on that project.  AMC also offered the 1970 type ball joint suspension as an option for 1969 Javelin, for Trans-AM.  Almost all of those cars went as kits to Australia. If your handy with a welder you could retrofit the 70 up suspension onto the 69 and earlier cars. The factory did , so it can be done.

The other thing I've been looking at is the coil over kits the Ford guys have for the earlier Mustangs. Now Ford did not use the trunnions but otherwise the suspension are remarkable similar. The main thing is the Ford strut rod goes forward and the AMC goes back. Now mind you I'm only eye balling this from Magazines and the internet , BUT and it's BIG BUT I think you might be able to take this latter type coil over front suspension from an early Mustang and put it on the 69 and earlier AMCs. It will take some kind of modifications, but if you going to up date to a better suspension this might be the way to go. If you going to make the car handle better why not more like a Ferrari then a Mustang II! I already found out from Mike Wilson, who did my 1969 AMX with a Lincoln Versailles ford 9 inch rear end  ,next door neighbor does Ford Mustangs full time. He told Mike that if the LV 9 inch with fit on a 69 AMX then there FOX body Independent Rear Suspension kit (IRS) will bolt on too. If the rear bolts on , the front may bolt on too. I don't have the time and money right now to pursue this , but if some else wants to work it out be my guest.   LRDaum
LRDaum
Back to Top
Rebel Machine View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted


Joined: Jul/03/2007
Location: Western Il
Status: Offline
Points: 5122
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rebel Machine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 6:58pm
I'm hoping to do a '70-up double ball joint upper control arm for my '69 AMX. I think it can be done with the '70-up steering knuckle, new control arm and spring seat. The big difference I can see is the '70-up spring is larger in diameter than the '69 spring so the '70-up spring seat isn't going to work. The '65-'73 Mustang front suspension is remarkably similar to the AMCs and it looks to have a similar diameter spring so the Mustang spring seat may work.
 
I'm shooting for a bolt-in solution that won't require any welding or fabrication. Right now my AMX is at the body shop so I can't proceed with anything until I get it back. Hopefully I'll get it back sometime in the next month.
 
I'm real curious to see 69AMX364's work.
 
-Steve-
 
Back to Top
poormansMACHINE View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jun/28/2007
Location: Shoemaker-Levy9
Status: Offline
Points: 12302
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote poormansMACHINE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 7:33pm
Originally posted by 69AMX364 69AMX364 wrote:

Can you put upper ball joints on a 69 amx? Yes and not as hard..............


Remember your audience before saying something is easy.
Not everyone has fab skills, plasma cutters and mig welders at their disposal. There are many that can't get through a bolt on disc brake swap from a Spirit.


Back to Top
69AMX364 View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Jun/07/2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69AMX364 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 9:02pm
Yes, but there are some groups that could make this without breaking the bank or destroying a second amc for parts. And with a AMC at some point you must make or modify parts to drive it. ie heater control valves got very hard to find at one time.
 
How can I POST Pics? please.
Back to Top
poormansMACHINE View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jun/28/2007
Location: Shoemaker-Levy9
Status: Offline
Points: 12302
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote poormansMACHINE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 9:08pm
Originally posted by 69AMX364 69AMX364 wrote:

 
How can I POST Pics? please.


Easy

http://theamcforum.com/forum/guide-to-posting-photos_topic220.html
Back to Top
69AMX364 View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Jun/07/2009
Location: Dallas, TX
Status: Offline
Points: 150
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 69AMX364 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 9:33pm
Just read. Need 10 posts first. Bummer
640 x 480 and 87.6 kb it shows a lot of detail worth a 1000 words
Back to Top
purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jul/01/2007
Location: Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 16611
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2009 at 12:26am
Originally posted by poormansMACHINE poormansMACHINE wrote:

Originally posted by 69AMX364 69AMX364 wrote:

Can you put upper ball joints on a 69 amx? Yes and not as hard..............


Remember your audience before saying something is easy.
Not everyone has fab skills, plasma cutters and mig welders at their disposal. There are many that can't get through a bolt on disc brake swap from a Spirit.


PMM hit the nail on the head here IMO.    I did put disc brakes and freeflows on a 1972 V8 Gremlin..........but just because I can do it doesnt mean somebody else can.

Edited by purple72Gremlin - Jun/26/2009 at 9:37am
Back to Top
billd View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group

Forum Administrator

Joined: Jun/27/2007
Location: Iowa
Status: Offline
Points: 30894
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2009 at 6:44am
Really odd that the way I drove my pre-70 AMCs, I never once had issues or problems, nor did I think the trunnion setup caused steering or performance issues.
nice to have an alternative, but for me, certainly would never be worth the time and effort and expense to convert. I did autocross with mine, whomped a lot of mid-sized chebbies!

But I guess what I really wanted to add is that I'm with pmm - probably the typical user will not only not have the tools, but also won't have the expertise or abilities. To each their own abilities and skills. Some are great pilots or lawyers, others great welders and machinists.
Might be easy for me knowledgewise, OTOH, I don't have nor can I afford the fancy welding and cutting equipment for that seldom project. I'd have to hire all the fabrication.
So if you REALLY wanted it easy, it would require that it be fully fabricated and a bolt-in deal with detailed instructions "no assembly required".

The picture requirement is to avoid issues like many many other forums and web sites are having now...........
I'm a HUGE security and anti-spam nut. Spam sucks, spammers suck, they should all be jailed for years. Period. They intrude, deface and abuse property.
Back to Top
kirkwood View Drop Down
Moderator Group
Moderator Group
Avatar
Charter Member

Joined: Jun/28/2007
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Status: Offline
Points: 6566
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kirkwood Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/26/2009 at 7:16am
I am not sure I understand why people are so anti-trunnion cars. It sounds like the amount of work would offset any savings; a rebuilt trunnion suspension would last another 40 years. 

FWIW I used mustang springs on my spirit. I used a late sixties lower spring seat and made new mounting for it. There were a lot more options off the shelf and much cheaper for mustang springs than late AMC springs. The upper spring seat was the same size. 
AMO Newsletter Editor
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.141 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or