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69 AMX Upper ball joint conversion |
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69AMX364
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Posted: Jun/25/2009 at 4:27pm |
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Can you put upper ball joints on a 69 amx? Yes and not as hard as replacing all the inner fenders to a 70 model. Why? Unpleasnt springs could be a cause. Too stiff and too tall (at least to me) OEM front springs were removed about 1975 and put on a shelf till about 1985 and they took a set. oops. Once the motor was put back in the car they really never settled down.
So how would you change from the trunion to a ball joint?
Start by getting a 70 or later spindle, they just bolt on. I used Ebay. I thought I had a drum set from a 74, but I was mistaken. About 30 bucks.
Next you need a upper control arm. I started out with http://rightfootperformance.net/catalog/pdf/upperaframe.pdf
as a kit 9905 without the crossshaft. About 180 bucks.
Now I had to modify this 10 degree control arm. It needed to be 8.25 inchs across center to center instead of 10 inch (from a chevlle to a amc spec). I first tried the press to get this dimension. Then I figured out that while you could you can't. The ball joint ring was the weak link unless maybe you left a ball joint in. Which you could do, but you would never get it out.
So I used a plasma cutter to remove the ball joint rig and using the unchanged arm to make a jig. Ball joint rings (small sleeve threaded) about 20 bucks.
Moog ball joints marked 5485 were bought for 40 bucks. I had a new very old ball joint in my toolbox for about 20 years and it fit the upper ball joint taper nicely. This joint is also Duralast FA395. Upper ball joint ordered for 70 model challanger. The stock car ball joints now marked 5485 did not fit the upper joint, never figured out what changed and when.
Now for the length of the arms
Center of the ball joints to the weld on threaded bushings is about 6 3/8. With the rod ends that worked out to a total 8 3/4 from grease fitting to center of 5/8 rod ends.
Since the AMX used 1/2 inch bolts on upper control arm a 5/8 bronze bushing to 1/2 was used.
about 15 bucks including shipping.
Now the rod ends are not the same width as the bushing so you need 1 1/4 inch of thick walled tubing is needed per bushing. These were used to center the rod ends in the openings. Also any changes were used to increase caster in a positive direction. Per side you need 4 bushings - 2 5/8 length and 2 custom lengths for 1 1/4 inch. If your jig is perfect and the welding heat shift is figured in then the bushings could all be the same.
I did call Right Foot Performance and they could sell the kits un welded, which would save a bunch of work. But they could not sell a kit form with 8 1/4 centered, due to the work needed and volume. this unweled kit will be cheaper then what I paid.
If I find out how to post pictures I will.
The rim width coud be changed much wider if desired.
Still working on the QA1 shock and spring setup
This mod could be reversed if needed.
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mramc
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/12/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3217 |
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OK let me throw my 2 cents worth of thoughts on the subject out. One some one is planning on making lighter control arms for AMCs of this period. Looks over this web site and the other AMC forum and you should find it. I'm not going to do that for you and I'm not sure where they are at on that project. AMC also offered the 1970 type ball joint suspension as an option for 1969 Javelin, for Trans-AM. Almost all of those cars went as kits to Australia. If your handy with a welder you could retrofit the 70 up suspension onto the 69 and earlier cars. The factory did , so it can be done.
The other thing I've been looking at is the coil over kits the Ford guys have for the earlier Mustangs. Now Ford did not use the trunnions but otherwise the suspension are remarkable similar. The main thing is the Ford strut rod goes forward and the AMC goes back. Now mind you I'm only eye balling this from Magazines and the internet , BUT and it's BIG BUT I think you might be able to take this latter type coil over front suspension from an early Mustang and put it on the 69 and earlier AMCs. It will take some kind of modifications, but if you going to up date to a better suspension this might be the way to go. If you going to make the car handle better why not more like a Ferrari then a Mustang II! I already found out from Mike Wilson, who did my 1969 AMX with a Lincoln Versailles ford 9 inch rear end ,next door neighbor does Ford Mustangs full time. He told Mike that if the LV 9 inch with fit on a 69 AMX then there FOX body Independent Rear Suspension kit (IRS) will bolt on too. If the rear bolts on , the front may bolt on too. I don't have the time and money right now to pursue this , but if some else wants to work it out be my guest. LRDaum |
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LRDaum
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Rebel Machine
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: Western Il Status: Offline Points: 5122 |
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I'm hoping to do a '70-up double ball joint upper control arm for my '69 AMX. I think it can be done with the '70-up steering knuckle, new control arm and spring seat. The big difference I can see is the '70-up spring is larger in diameter than the '69 spring so the '70-up spring seat isn't going to work. The '65-'73 Mustang front suspension is remarkably similar to the AMCs and it looks to have a similar diameter spring so the Mustang spring seat may work.
I'm shooting for a bolt-in solution that won't require any welding or fabrication. Right now my AMX is at the body shop so I can't proceed with anything until I get it back. Hopefully I'll get it back sometime in the next month.
I'm real curious to see 69AMX364's work.
-Steve-
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poormansMACHINE
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jun/28/2007 Location: Shoemaker-Levy9 Status: Offline Points: 12302 |
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Remember your audience before saying something is easy. Not everyone has fab skills, plasma cutters and mig welders at their disposal. There are many that can't get through a bolt on disc brake swap from a Spirit. |
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69AMX364
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Yes, but there are some groups that could make this without breaking the bank or destroying a second amc for parts. And with a AMC at some point you must make or modify parts to drive it. ie heater control valves got very hard to find at one time.
How can I POST Pics? please.
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poormansMACHINE
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jun/28/2007 Location: Shoemaker-Levy9 Status: Offline Points: 12302 |
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Easy http://theamcforum.com/forum/guide-to-posting-photos_topic220.html |
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69AMX364
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Dallas, TX Status: Offline Points: 150 |
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Just read. Need 10 posts first. Bummer
640 x 480 and 87.6 kb it shows a lot of detail worth a 1000 words
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purple72Gremlin
AMC Addicted Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Illinois Status: Offline Points: 16611 |
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Edited by purple72Gremlin - Jun/26/2009 at 9:37am |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Really odd that the way I drove my pre-70 AMCs, I never once had issues or problems, nor did I think the trunnion setup caused steering or performance issues.
nice to have an alternative, but for me, certainly would never be worth the time and effort and expense to convert. I did autocross with mine, whomped a lot of mid-sized chebbies! But I guess what I really wanted to add is that I'm with pmm - probably the typical user will not only not have the tools, but also won't have the expertise or abilities. To each their own abilities and skills. Some are great pilots or lawyers, others great welders and machinists. Might be easy for me knowledgewise, OTOH, I don't have nor can I afford the fancy welding and cutting equipment for that seldom project. I'd have to hire all the fabrication. So if you REALLY wanted it easy, it would require that it be fully fabricated and a bolt-in deal with detailed instructions "no assembly required". The picture requirement is to avoid issues like many many other forums and web sites are having now........... I'm a HUGE security and anti-spam nut. Spam sucks, spammers suck, they should all be jailed for years. Period. They intrude, deface and abuse property. |
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kirkwood
Moderator Group Charter Member Joined: Jun/28/2007 Location: Fort Wayne, IN Status: Offline Points: 6566 |
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I am not sure I understand why people are so anti-trunnion cars. It sounds like the amount of work would offset any savings; a rebuilt trunnion suspension would last another 40 years.
FWIW I used mustang springs on my spirit. I used a late sixties lower spring seat and made new mounting for it. There were a lot more options off the shelf and much cheaper for mustang springs than late AMC springs. The upper spring seat was the same size.
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