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304 vs 360 - one builders opinion

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stonedblue View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonedblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/22/2013 at 7:59pm
Originally posted by nda racer nda racer wrote:

Originally posted by stonedblue stonedblue wrote:

IMHO, the 304 won't exceed oiling of a stock system as quickly as a 360 will. Simply put, the small bore/same stroke/ small valves of the 304 just won't let it turn the rpm the 360 will. .
 
A buddy of mine spun 6800 rpm with a stock long block 304. Intake, headers and cam was all that was done. Smog bridged rocker heads. It was a 272 HMV Crane. His 360 had a 270 Comp and would not spin as high.
 
He also hurt 2 360s racing and never hurt the 304. It was only pulled to go 360 for more power and more problems.
 
 

I did say STOCK 304, and I don't doubt a 304 can turn the tach to 6k+. I'm not saying even a stock 304 won't scream, just don't know how much power it will make in STOCK form at high rpm, so why twist it that hard? Don't know, never tried...
I can build an engine, but, I can't drain oil without a mess.'04Ram,'99Plym.Van,"96Exploder,'79Dodge pickup, '71Jav. '68Jav, and '90 Gold Rush trailer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nda racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/22/2013 at 8:57pm
I was too lazy to edit all the quote. I was touching on this.
 
 
"Simply put, the small bore/same stroke/ small valves of the 304 just won't let it turn the rpm the 360 will."
 
I think 6800 is quite impessive from a STOCK long block, A cam (valve springs) intake and headers are nothing but very mild easy bolt-ons, the engine was completely STOCK otherwise. No head porting, 8:1 compression, factory valve job, no over bore, nothing but a smog 74 304 with a few parts beet in with a hammer. It went 6800 with ease. Altho there may be dozen of bone stock long block 8:1 360s on here turning 7500+ making the 6800 just average, since the 304s small bore, same stroke and small valves are no match for the superior 360s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Smiley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/22/2013 at 10:01pm
You don't have to spin a 360 nearly as high to make more power that a 304 ever could hope to. Plus bottom end torque is no contest. I've had two 360s that both went 200 K-miles.
 
One was souped up in a Hornet and one was fairly stock in a 4500 lb Jeep I thrashed for 20 years. One other thing. - 360s seemed so much easier to keep running cool and also make good oil pressure than 401s.
 
On a real race track the 401 is better but now you're talking a whole different game. Running a small-valve 304 in anything reminds me of the old saying - "dictated by poverty or a keen sense of adventure". Big smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/24/2013 at 1:12am

Let's see.....if the 304 is more durable than the 360, that must mean the 401 is a POS. I don't hear any complaints about the 401 in this thread.

360's bust ring lands and eat rod bearings because people run too much ignition timing in them and pound them out.
 
I have no complaints about the 360.  Mine has always gotten me where I needed to with reasonable power, fuel economy, and smoothness. It always starts right away and doesn't hessitate or complain.  It's like driving a modern car, and runs better and better each and every day.  I have no reservations about driving this car hundreds of miles cross-country, it has been so reliable to me. That is what makes a good engine in my book.
 
I like the MoPar 1992-2993 Magnum 5.9 (Updated Chrysler LA 360). The one in my family's Dodge behaves alot like my Jeep's 360. They both behave themselves quietly under the hood while being reasonable on gas and waking up when needed when the pedal is punched.
 
4.0L's and 2.5L's, however, dissapoint me. I wish I had a dollar for every one I've heard with a rod or main knock...or a wobbling harmonic balancer...or a shot water pump bearing. Noisy little suckers. As the years progressed, they kept increasing power output while decreasing block strength and bearing size: not a good combo. Just give me a 258. I know people love and get 200,000 miles out of the 4.0L, but alot of that is due to the electronic engine management. A 360 will go just as long if people actually gave them a proper tune-up. 
 
 
 
 


Edited by FSJunkie - May/24/2013 at 1:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Charles Smiley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/24/2013 at 11:25am
FSJunkie...  Speaking of running too much advance.
 
In Kalifornia we have our own "special" gasoline that makes me run much less spark advance on my FS Jeep. Summer blends act like it's 'cut' with donkey urine. I have to drop the initial advance back about 5 degrees when they switch over each year.

 

We have a Billion Dollar fraud outfit here called the Air Resources Board that thinks the federal fuel standards from the EPA aren't good enough. It also explains the big price difference in cost when you travel from Phoenix to LA.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stonedblue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/24/2013 at 4:33pm
Donkey urine would be funny if it wasn't true...
I can build an engine, but, I can't drain oil without a mess.'04Ram,'99Plym.Van,"96Exploder,'79Dodge pickup, '71Jav. '68Jav, and '90 Gold Rush trailer
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/24/2013 at 6:52pm
Originally posted by Charles Smiley Charles Smiley wrote:

FSJunkie...  Speaking of running too much advance.
 
In Kalifornia we have our own "special" gasoline that makes me run much less spark advance on my FS Jeep. Summer blends act like it's 'cut' with donkey urine. I have to drop the initial advance back about 5 degrees when they switch over each year.

 

We have a Billion Dollar fraud outfit here called the Air Resources Board that thinks the federal fuel standards from the EPA aren't good enough. It also explains the big price difference in cost when you travel from Phoenix to LA.

I don't have a problem with the CA fuel when I travel through in my old vehicles, but I do have a problem with the vapor recovery nozzles at every pump.  I prefer to not have half the gasoline I pump end up dribbling down the side of my car and onto the ground. Kinda eats off the wax, attracts dirt, and causes a fire hazard.
 
 
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1973 Ambassador
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Midnight Rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/24/2013 at 8:43pm
Originally posted by FSJunkie FSJunkie wrote:

I don't have a problem with the CA fuel when I travel through in my old vehicles, but I do have a problem with the vapor recovery nozzles at every pump.  I prefer to not have half the gasoline I pump end up dribbling down the side of my car and onto the ground. Kinda eats off the wax, attracts dirt, and causes a fire hazard.
 
 


It's the curve on the nozzles that causes them to spit up.  The old leaded gas nozzles were way straighter.  I think the shape of the new nozzles causes the gas to hit the side of the fill tube, splashing it around, slowing down the drain and interfering with the displacement of air coming up through the fill tube from the tank. 

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