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rear end swap 56-66 Classic |
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Wrambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 4197 |
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Posted: Jul/16/2023 at 12:46pm |
Granada is about 57 1/4" and big tube clear to brake drum. 10x 1 1/2 brakes. Driveshaft is Centered! It just had too many things going for it for me to pass up for $200. Even the leaf pads are only 1/4' off
I have a 8.8 I'll be selling. 3L73 from 92 Ranger.
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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler 4.0L, 5 speed 2015 Grand Cherokee Limited 2019 Chrysler 300 |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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Mark has a good suggestion! Rover or Granada live axle would work. Maybe 79-82 Taunus/Cortina V6? Aren't they live axle? Rear track is 56", but with 1" spacers on each end it would work.
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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Open driveshaft, not a torque tube. And the American axle is only around 55" wide, not 58" like the big cars. Only the 56-66 big cars used Torque Tubes (and the big Nash and Hudson cars), and all AMc torque tubes used coil springs. All Americans and smaller cars (Javelin, AMX, Hornet, etc.) used open driveshafts and leaf springs. The diff is near centered on both, so the axle shaft from the American won't be long enough. On the plus side as long as the big car was a six cylinder the hub from the American axle will fit. Of course it's not a good idea to place a used hub from one axle shaft onto another as it probably won't have enough surface area to grip due to the 'splines" not lining up. Remember, a virgin hub has no splines and is slightly softer metal than the axle shaft, which has shallow spine rolled into it before hardening. Those splines are transferred to the virgin hub when it's installed. The splines simply increase the total surface are of part engagement, they don't really add strength. The strength is in the increased contact area when torqued down properly. If there is a key (pre 57 axles don't have a key, only 58 and later) it's just there so that the hub will be aligned the same if ever removed. A hardened key adds a little strength, but not much. That said, since yours has spun, you could have another key or two cut in the axle and hub. In the early days AMC drag racers did that, before there was a one piece axle available and some classes may have had to use factory components. But that would probably be costly since the axle shaft is hardened. Might ask a machine shop about that. Another solution that might no cost as much is ti have the end of the axle and hub drilled after assembly (and torqued down) for a hardened taper pin. If the end of your axle isn't totally trashed you might just try the used hub from the American axle though. At this point there isn't much to lose. Have I pointed you to page 16 of this thread? Alternatives to the torque tube, but need a live axle (like a Rover rear drive axle?). Another alternative: https://www.ramblerlore.com/AMC/Roadster/rear-suspension/index.html This is a "wishbone" suspension in that it has a single pivot point in front. Instead of a heim joint a rubber strut rod bushing (straight threaded rod on the end) could be used since there is little movement. That would also take a lot of vibration and road noise out, something Tom wasn't concerned about in open car that already has a lot of wind and road noise. The front of the "legs" could also be separated, turning it into a "truck arm" suspension. Again, strut rod bushings at the front (or rubber control arm bushings) would quiet things down.
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Frank Swygert
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Wrambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 4197 |
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I would use a Granada axle mounted with NASCAR 62 Chevy truck arms.
Might be hard to find the truck arms there. If you're going to change something. Get away from the two piece axles.
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Wrambler
69 AMC Rambler 4.0L, 5 speed 2015 Grand Cherokee Limited 2019 Chrysler 300 |
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Vince305
AMC Apprentice Joined: Apr/23/2020 Location: London uk Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Been offered a Rambler axle woohoo and not a million miles away from me……. But and there’s always a but isn’t there…… it’s from a 58’ American I’m sure there similar as in width and torque tube but with leaf springs instead of coil (that’s not an issue) can anyone confirm or deny please
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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At this point welding the hub to the axle might work, at least for a while. I don't know about the newer model IRS systems. It all depends on how they mount. Most have special supports made onto the body and are not easy to mount to something else. What about 80s Jaguars? They should be relatively plentiful in wrecking yards over there and are easy to mount. I have a 1988 Jag IRS in my 63 Classic. Yes, lost the torque tube. I have a Jeep 4.0L and AW4 four speed (OD) auto trans, so had to lose it. The Jag fits IF you use the Jag wheels... or some other deep set wheels. I'm using a set of Weld Racing Draglite dual pattern wheels (Jag uses 5x4.75" old Chevy pattern, AMC 5x4.5" -- same as Chrysler, Ford and big Toyota.. and 99+ Honda Accord). They are 7" wide with 5.5" backset -- the only affordable wheel I could find in 7" with that much backset. With a 215/70R15 tire the axle fits easily. It's not hard to fit in the Rambler at all. See https://theamcforum.com/forum/rambler-with-jag-irs-take-2_topic80555_page1.html. I'm still running this setup -- 7 years now! It's been to Kenosha and back from Lexington, SC (about a 16 hour drive each way) once and on several 3-4 hour (each way) trips. Just got back from Knoxville,TN, AMO meet... a four hour drive each way. The only issue I really had was that Jag used a 2.88 gear in XJ6s with auto trans -- which most in the US have. I had to get a set of 3.55 gears. 3.31 were used a lot in the UK in manual trans cars... along with 3.058 and 3.54 (3.55... depends on how you round the numbers) gears. I really wanted 3.32, but they weren't readily available on this side of the pond. The Jag IRS is the same from 61-86. For 87 up the diff is supported differently, you'll just have to look it up! I think the car I got mine from was a 1988 though. Apparently there were still some XJ6 Series III cars made in 87 and 88? The XJ40 type XJ6 got the new rear axle setup. Or I'm just wrong about the year of the donor car, which is a possibility! The yard had it marked as an 88, but it could have been misidentified.
Edited by farna - Jun/26/2023 at 8:29pm |
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Frank Swygert
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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I think I would try welding it on. What have you got to loose?
Edit: I did it years ago and swapped the differential. If I had it to over again I'd get some shim stock in there and rattle on the nut with a big air gun, followed by welding the nut to the hub as well as to the axle. Edited by vinny - Jun/23/2023 at 11:05am |
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Vince305
AMC Apprentice Joined: Apr/23/2020 Location: London uk Status: Offline Points: 42 |
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Hi all I’ve posted else where about an issue I had where after replacing the wheel bearing I DIDNT torque the hub enough and it spun ….. but I had managed to save it but since then it’s spun twice…… yeah obviously I didn’t do a good job 🙁
So I’m now stuck I need to either buy a replacement shaft and hub or change the axle (I’ve already replaced the 6 with a Buick/rover v8 and used the bw35 trans but adapted the tail housing to accommodate the torque tube) (here in the uk amc parts are hard to find or too expensive to ship over) Im considering using an independent rear from a bmw E36 for ease of installation or a ford granada (uk version) but even these are getting hard to find but that also leaves me with Lexus Im already on air ride just stuck as to what rear to run as I’ll have to change the torque tube no matter what unless a stock axle comes up ….. it’s not being used for racing just a regular use go getter
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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I've read somewhere, on this forum I think, that some of the bearings of the older AMC20's are hard to come by. Apparently the 66 has different bearings more readily available but I am not sure of any of this. I would think that 65 and 66 would be the same but who knows?
I stripped an AMC15 axle in my 64 Classic and replaced the differential with an AMC 20 that also had 9" brakes. I have no idea from which car that differential came from. Since then I put in an AMC20 from a 66 Ambassador. It has 10" brakes which are not interchangeable because the axles have different diameters (1 1/4 vs 1 3/8 IIRC) and the backing plate hole spacing is different. One thing is for sure though, both those T/T AMC20's are really heavy. The one with the 10" brakes can be dragged around on the drums, not the one with 9".
Edited by vinny - May/17/2022 at 10:49pm |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19611 |
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paulhvip -- YES. 63-66 models all use the same rear axle assembly, and torque tube. 195.6 and 199 powered cars use a smaller axle (AMC 15), 232 and V-8 cars all use the large AMC 20. There is a difference in six cylinder and V-8 driveshafts inside the tube though. The axles should swap between a six cylinder and V-8 car, but the driveshaft won't. Of course the axle ratios would be different also... |
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Frank Swygert
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