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Auto Tran to Man swap violent shake

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Boris Badanov View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/02/2019 at 8:26pm
Excellent post, right on the fly pooh.
 
You da MAN!
Originally posted by tufcj tufcj wrote:

Did you use the 304 flywheel or order one for a 360?  AMC V-8s are externally balanced.  The flywheel (and harmonic balancer) have to be for your specific displacement.

If you still have the automatic flexplate that came off the 360, you can take that and the flywheel to an automotive machine shop and have them "match balanced".

Bob
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrizti4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/02/2019 at 10:13pm
I was thinking I would try that before removing the flywheel. Wasnt sure, as it acted the exact same with the clutch engaged, or released. Thanks for the response!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/03/2019 at 12:42pm
If you do end up deciding to take the flywheel back off we can take a look at the size and placement of the weight and calculate the unbalance, and then do the same for the original flexplate, and compare the two.

I just ran though that exercise last night with a 1968 390 flexplate and calculated 25.53 oz-inch unbalance, which is shockingly close to the 25.6 oz-inch listed in the SAE paper for the 390. It had four 1.375" holes on one half and a big rectangular weight on the other that opposed each other to make up the total unbalance.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/03/2019 at 4:03pm
A tad under 40 years ago I took a 343 flex plate and attached a 304
flex plate to it and cut openings in the 343 to make then neutral balance
at 180 degrees apart, I had to screw on a piece of steel.
 
Better to weld it, but screwed on and peening the threads worked.
 
I used a grinding wheel balance fixture.
 
I gotta think a balancing shop could handle the job better ;-).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrizti4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/04/2019 at 6:33pm
Thanks for the response to everyone! Ipulled everything, noted everything I could. 1st the clutch shock springs, they were away from the flywheel, toward the Trans like every GM I built. Are they supposed to be on the flywheel side with the AMC? Two reasons I ask. The clutch has about 1/2 space between springs and flywheel bolts with plate against flywheel, the springs WONT hit the heads of the bolts. Second with the springs toward F/W the disc itself can only move side to side less that 1/8 of an inch in the F/W, with the springs away from F/W, the disc can move more than an inch. Noticed extremely small metal shavings on input shaft at Trans nose cone, and splines. The pilot bushing is a perfect fit, so if there is side to side movement it would have to take place with the input shaft in the transmission. Also noticed nose cone had made contact with center clutch cone. Could see fresh markings on both. When measurements were taken before pulling B/H with springs away from F/W there is about 4-1/16" space between Trans-B/H contact face and clutch cone. When set up on bench and clutch plate slid onto input shaft so that the clutch "friction face" is the same distance from trans-B/H face and the springs are positioned toward F/W, there is a tad over 4-1/8 space. Meaning less chance of contact between T-nose cone and clutch disc cone with springs toward F/W. The clutch operated ok, maybe a bit noisy, not crazy noisy. The original flexplate that was on the engine had no oil markings, corrosion or anything to tell me how it was positioned on the crank. Although it does have some markings. Has a stamp 0891 on it. Also looks like it does go in a certain position, has 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 punched in on the trans side and also an X in the 6 oclock position if you were to hold it like a clock face with 1-11 in corresponding attitudes. So "guessing" with the engine at TDC the X would be at the 6 oclock position? That way it would be in some kind of alignment with the crank and Harmonic Balancer because the H/B is keyed to the crank. Greyhounds_AMX mentioned he had a friend that had same issue and it was his clutch/pressure plate causing it. I am going to get the match balance as you all have suggested. I am also going to mount the clutch with the springs facing the F/W this time to see if the lack of clutch plate movement from side to side is helpful. I have learned that if you change more than one issue and fix the problem, you wont be sure which change actually fixed the problem! lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote tufcj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/04/2019 at 8:33pm
A 360 flywheel will have weight block about 1" square cast in on the engine side.  A 304 flywheel doesn't have the block.  One hole in the crankshaft and flywheel is slightly offset, so there's only 1 position where all 6 holes will align.

The match balance is highly recommended.

Bob
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If you need a tool and don't buy it...
you'll eventually pay for it...
and not have it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/05/2019 at 5:50am
What trans do you have?

The springs should face the trans like you have it. I wonder if the disk hub is hitting the input bearing retainer snout.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/05/2019 at 6:21am
I see it's a 5 speed from your first post - T5?

You may find some clues in my T5 clutch post

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chrizti4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/05/2019 at 10:25am
Researched all night. Unfortunately cant find a machine shop around here that is open today to get matched balanced. Seeing I have plenty of time, and after everyone's description I have the correct flywheel, I am going to put everything back together with the springs in toward the flywheel instead of toward the trans. I am an experimenter anyway and again I re-iterate that there is plenty of clearance between the springs and the F/W bolts with them towards the F/W. Worse that could happen is clutch wont engage. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jul/05/2019 at 12:31pm
That doesn't seem correct though - every one I've seen has the raised center plate with the springs in it facing toward the pressure plate. As you mentioned, it's just like a Chevy. In fact it is a Chevy pressure plate.

With the metal shavings and contact going on it sounds like the clutch hub needs to be trimmed down to clear the transmission snout or some other means of finding more clearance is needed. For my T5 swap I had a spacer made to move the trans back about 1/8" from the bellhousing and that really helped. That should be in the post I linked to earlier.
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