Borg Warner M12 Installation procedure

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   Local shop rebuilt my Borg Warner M12. Does the torque converter require filling with Dextron lll or 1V before installing the converter and transmission? If so, how many quarts?
 The engine and transmission will be raised up into the engine bay from underneath the car. 

 If I recall correctly the dowel pins go in the converter housing first,  and then the transmission's dowel pins are matched up to the engine block aligning holes?

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AMXFSTBK390 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/22/2013 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 3489	Post Options Post Reply Quote AMXFSTBK390 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Borg Warner M12 Installation procedure Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 4:22pm
	Local shop rebuilt my Borg Warner M12. Does the torque converter require filling with Dextron lll or 1V before installing the converter and transmission? If so, how many quarts? The engine and transmission will be raised up into the engine bay from underneath the car. If I recall correctly the dowel pins go in the converter housing first, and then the transmission's dowel pins are matched up to the engine block aligning holes?
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PHAT69AMX Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919	Post Options Post Reply Quote PHAT69AMX Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 5:05pm
	I remember the hollow locating dowel pins are pressed into the block... Yes, I did pour 1 quart of trans fluid into the Converter before putting it into the Trans. Also a thin coat on the Converter Pump Drive Snout to help it be friendly with the Converter Seal. Obviously be sure you get 3 "clunks", converter fully in place, 1-spline, 2-spline, 3-Pump Lugs. Converter is indexed to the flexplate and only mounts up, lines up all 4 holes, in only 1 of the 4 possible positions, and the flexplate balance weight may prevent much converter rotation once the BellHousing is bolted to the Block and don't forget the 1/8" thick Motor Plate BEFORE the Flexplate is attached to the Crank Flange. The Motorplate is also located by the Dowels pressed into the block. Suggest, by hand, screw all the bell housing bolts into the Block BEFORE getting the trans up into place to check and make sure the bolts and threads are in good shape and bolts screw in freely. Edited by PHAT69AMX - Jun/25/2019 at 5:08pm
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WesternRed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/03/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5799	Post Options Post Reply Quote WesternRed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 5:07pm
	I'd say 2 or 3 quarts into the converter before installation, not critical. I don't think it matters which way the dowel pins go, but usually I have found that they stay in the block. Don't forget the mid-plate between the block and transmission.
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AMXFSTBK390 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/22/2013 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 3489	Post Options Post Reply Quote AMXFSTBK390 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 5:28pm
	Thank you for the quick responses. I pulled the engine four years ago and wasn't sure about the dowel alignment pins. The pins go in the bottom corner holes in the block. The shop that bored the block must have taken the dowel pins out. I do have new one's. I'll pound them in using a piece a 2"x 4" hard oak and hammer. Then, mount the mid-plate, flex plate, torque converter, and M12. Then, bolt to engine and hoist her up. Thanks for the replies and pm's. Edited by AMXFSTBK390 - Jun/25/2019 at 6:02pm
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PHAT69AMX Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/07/2007 Location: West Virginia Status: Offline Points: 5919	Post Options Post Reply Quote PHAT69AMX Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 5:40pm
	They can also be pulled into the block using smaller sized bolts, some good washers, and a hex nut.
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AMXFSTBK390 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/22/2013 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 3489	Post Options Post Reply Quote AMXFSTBK390 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 6:07pm
	Great idea! That I will do. I just tried to pre-fit the dowel pins into the BH and it seems the BH bolts will actually pull the transmission into place onto the dowel pins. I am understanding why Delta Transmission advised me to pay attention to the order of events when installing the M12. lThanx Edited by AMXFSTBK390 - Jun/25/2019 at 6:09pm
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tufcj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Watkins, CO Status: Offline Points: 4092	Post Options Post Reply Quote tufcj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 6:31pm
	I always mount automatics with the torque converter in the trans. Like said above, you need to be sure the slots in the nose of the T/C align with the tabs on the pump inside the trans. If you try to pull the engine and trans together with the bolts, you can break the pump if the tabs aren't aligned. There is enough fore/aft movement of the torque converter to get the studs into the flexplate with the trans loosely attached. Bob tufcj
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AMXFSTBK390 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Oct/22/2013 Location: SF Bay Area Status: Offline Points: 3489	Post Options Post Reply Quote AMXFSTBK390 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 7:32pm
	Bob, Appreciate the technical advice. The M12 installation procedure is poorly explained in the TSM. Chilton's does a better job explaining but did not mention the T/C slots mating with the pump tabs. Thanks again for important advice.
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69 ambassador 390 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/22/2009 Location: Peoria, AZ Status: Offline Points: 3539	Post Options Post Reply Quote 69 ambassador 390 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/25/2019 at 9:21pm
	The converter will bolt up with any of the four holes in any position. There is no indexing of the converter. It is neutral balanced. If there is a drain plug, then you should make sure it comes out of one of the flex plate balance holes. Line it up through the starter and access holes. Do not pull the bell and the engine together with the bolts, you will break the pump. Make sure the converter fits the crank pilot before you install the converter in the trans.
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WesternRed Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Aug/03/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5799	Post Options Post Reply Quote WesternRed Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Jun/26/2019 at 7:54pm
	Torqueflite transmissions have the indexed converter, BW converter bolts on in any direction, just the flex plate is indexed. Converter goes into the transmission then you offer the trans and converter up to the engine. You should check for some forward/aft movement in the converter before bolting (nutting) it the flex plate, that way you know the converter is properly seated in the transmission.
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