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Rear wheel wobble...

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billd View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/30/2019 at 10:12pm
Check out the TSM - my hard-cover 1974 under "hubs and axles" states "replace brake drum and retaining screws..........." - is that not AMC saying "put them back"?
They also sell tools for removing and re-installing the clips used by GM - I have one of those tools. Bought it when I was in college and they taught us to put those things back.......
If it was "assembly only" - then why three? That's an expense AMC could ill-afford - and only one 1/4" bolt is needed to hold a drum on when putting it in the car at the factory - or shipping them between plants.  Why three if it's assembly only?
the TSM says "replace........", we were taught in college - during the semester on brakes, to replace drum retainers (bolts, nuts, otherwise) but guess work prevails still.
Whatever. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 990V8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/12/2019 at 1:35pm
Two reasons I can think of to keep them, says he belatedly.
 
First, it's hard to check for brake rub with the wheel off, if there's nothing holding the drum.
 
Secondly, back in the day, the driver has to deal with a puncture, take off the wheel, they might not be aware to check that the drum is properly seated when they fit the spare, perhaps in the dark.
 
Always had retainers in my cars, but they've always been countersinks.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2019 at 12:24am
i admit i leave the little small-head bolts out. (factory wheels have clearance for them, it's only aftermarket wheels that don't) but it is true, checking brake shoe scuff requires it affixed to the hub.

in 1961 my American up on a lift/side of the road flat swap would be one set of circumstances. today, i simply screw on two lug nuts, upside down for that. the metal is the same but circumstances, repair and engineering practice, and car culture have changed.

billd's point is interesting: one little bolt would work; two certainly redundant. why three?! the answer is probably in the culture -- of industry, of users, and everything else. not all engineering practice was sensible -- at least us AMCers aren't burdened with the embarassment/superstition of left-hand-thread lugnuts on the left side of the car.


/does 'replace' mean put them back?/ look! we're already doing archaeology! on stuff we think we know about! lol! many times i'm puzzled by those seemingly obvious statements in the TSM...


Edited by tomj - Jun/13/2019 at 12:27am
1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 990V8 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2019 at 3:24am
Left hand thread.
Ha! I remember that.
 
With knock-off wheels there was good reason for it, any slight slack in the splines and the caps will start to loosen. But with four or five nuts, it does seem rather pointless.
 
My 34 Lanchester had that feature. The beautifully made closed-end nuts - they were visible on the wheels - were marked L and R on the heads.
So did my Silver Shadow. There. the nuts were not marked, and a past owner had muddled the rear hubs so that the left nuts were on the right of the car and vice versa. That was quite troublesome the first time I took the wheels off. Never came loose though.
 
My Landrover has one retainer on each drum. I think the Lanchester had two, but I owned that car a long time ago.
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/13/2019 at 9:30pm
I can say that after spinning a hub on an AMC 15 with a powerful 196 engine in front that they don't start to spin, they do it instantaneously. 

We rented a Nissan out of SFA and it vibrated a lot. I got my wife to drive in a parking lot while I observed the different wheels from various positions in the car. The right rear had a really good wobble. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 6PakBee Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/14/2019 at 9:58am
Just a thought, IF the retaining bolts are desirable AND they are interfering with the wheel, why couldn't you machine a shallow relief in the wheels to clear the bolts and everyone is happy?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote martin349 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2019 at 4:50am
There may be a confusion whats is wobbling in actual you may test this Block the front wheels, jack it up, start the engine, do some accelerate, and see if it wobbles. i have tested my truck which I use for Nyc Blocked Driveway Towing Service i realized that there was an issue in wheel. 

Edited by martin349 - Sep/19/2019 at 3:20pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXFSTBK390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2019 at 12:02pm
The three rear drum retaining bolts on a 68 AMX are not equally spaced which means the drum bolt holes need to be lined up with the threaded bolt holes. My question is why aren't the bolt holes spaced evenly 120 degrees apart? Does it have to do with keeping everything balanced? Is there and issue when using billet aluminum wheel spacers? Note: the AMX drums seem to be hub centric.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2019 at 1:05pm
Balance? Think about what's in play - the holes are filled with the bolts. The only weight is the little thin heads of those little quarter inch bolts.  One on one side offsets the weight of part of the pair on the other side (over-simplifying for sure) so you are off how much? Maybe part of the head of one of those bolts? And since they are so close to center they don't have much impact like the same amount of weight if it was out another ten inches. So you have a really tiny amount of weight that's closer to the center than other parts so having minimal impact on balance. 

For me I'm glad they are like they are because when doing brake jobs I knew the drums would always be clocked on the hub the same way in case of any spin-balancing done like we used to do on-the-car balancing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXFSTBK390 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/19/2019 at 4:03pm
Originally posted by billd billd wrote:

 

For me I'm glad they are like they are because when doing brake jobs I knew the drums would always be clocked on the hub the same way in case of any spin-balancing done like we used to do on-the-car balancing. 

Thanks for answering my question.  It may explain why the three drum bolts are not evenly spaced. 
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