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floor finishes, garage/shop |
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SirDigger 
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Joined: May/23/2012 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 2455 |
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 Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 1:43pm |
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I´m a Contractor&business Owner. I´ll do this stuff for a living.
The Problem with Concrete Buffing/Polishing is,it looks nice, but its slippery when wet. And its cold to your feet, if you dont keep the Garage at a certain Temp Level. Even if you heat it while working there, the Floor needs mich Time to catch the heat. Epoxy based Floor covers are the most riggid Surface you can get, Industrial Floor... Thats not the DIY-Stuff you can get everythere, an Industrial Floor machting Quality and Longlasting Regulations needs a few Steps more than Broom&Powerwash it and apply it ... Had this argument some times with customers who want their 50 year old oil soaked concrete to be covers in new shiny epoxy. -Steelball Blasting (even on new concrete to remove loose parts) untill clean concrete is present -Broom&Powerwash with Vaccum -Dry it -apply Primer give it the suggested Time to breath off -Baselayer -Toplayer with AntiSkid and Coulor And there´s a Reason why most of the STuff has to be done while wearing gasmasks... My next Step in Personal Garage Floor upgrades will be an 2,5" inch layer of XPS Insoulation, coverd by an CFK Laminate. Rigged enought for me, and no more cold feet. |
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SirDigger&his german Friends are looking for Parts http://theamcforum.com/forum/the-german-amc-forum-ambassadorsirdigger-needs_topic83570.html
1970 Javelin SST 304 1970 Javelin SST 360 |
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Rogerschro
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Joined: Aug/03/2015 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 111 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 2:07pm |
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I used the Epoxy paint on my new garage floor over five years ago. Cars, metal stands, tools, and many other stuff like gas, oil, trans fluid and paint stripper have been on it and it is still good. No lifting issues, even after power washing it a few times. This is with a NEW concrete floor, about a mount after it was poured. I'm sure if it was old or oil stained, the epoxy would not stick. After all, the oil will not stick to the epoxy after it is painted on, why would it stick when it is in the concrete? I think if you are covering an old floor, you need to clean it thoroughly and also etch it or media blast it to give it some teeth, then the epoxy may stick, but if it is heavily oil stained, there is no hope of a coating sticking to it no matter how well you clean it, the oil will just rise up and release the coating. The only other option is the interlocking tiles like swisstrac. I have that in my store, but it is hard to keep clean. The grain holds the grease and dirt and isn't very willing to let it go. But in a garage you could probably power wash the tiles, where in a store that isn't an option.
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 4:56pm |
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Keep in mind I will NOT be doing this myself. I've been that route in a way.
After the concrete was cured and the prescribed time has passed, I used the power wash, etch, prime, Behr 1 part epoxy paint method. Fine for a few weeks until I realized oil stained it, gas lifted it right up, or softened it so that if you stepped on it it would be like paint with stripper on it, it lifted on hot tires, it scratched and looked bad after a short time. there are rust stains, spots where gas and brake fluid lifted it, tire tracks and spots where the "epoxy" stuck to tires and you can tell what size and brand they were by the perfect imprint, etc. The pros that do it actually GRIND the surface to remove the old finish and to smooth the floor. They repair irregularities, fill the joints, clean, etc. It's well prepped, not just washed, cleaned and coated. I have contacted 5 companies and 2 have replied - but all of them GRIND the concrete, some use that AND other processes so that the surface will accept the epoxy or whatever. One uses a product that is not the same epoxy, it's a different compound they make but i'm having trouble getting them to contact me back. Another says his epoxy is for use in warehouses with fork lift traffic. He was concerned about steel floor jack wheels. I will not polish because of the extreme hazard. This isn't a dry basement floor where it will never get wet. There will be water, rain will be brought in on cars, snow may end up in there from a car, and the slick surface and I do not get along well. Like another member said - ask me how I know. Our garage floor is a very slick surface - they worked that power trowel until the concrete was very smooth and if it's just a bit wet you land on your butt or worse. Iv'e hard just because the floor got some rain on it dripping off a car. I understand the suggestions, however, and do thank you for all responses, but really, I have to ask - polish a shop floor that may be wet? Honest? I think this Behr 1 part epoxy is slicker than puppy poop when wet as it is. In fact cleaning the floor after clearing the stuff out half the shop I was taking baby steps in rubber soled shoes and STILL found myself slipping as if on ice. I want some texture, not too much or it's hard to SWEEP and keep clean. Does this make sense? Or an I thinking all wrong??? There will HAVE to be grinding to remove the old finish, and there will have to be some to level the floor after they raise the fallen part because we expect the high parts will not settle again. The prep the surface so it's not too smooth, so that their product, as one company said it, BONDS to the concrete. |
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 5:03pm |
I have LP gas infrared heat. It's a 30' tube that runs lengthwise down the center of the shop building about 13' up from the floor. THINGS get warm, the tools, the benches, CARS feel warm even in the winter and the floor gets warm. My feet hardly ever feel cold. It's nice after a while of running that the tools can be handled without gloves. I believe Peter mentioned he had that, well, someone did, and I looked at what forum members were using, did some other research and am extremely happy with that heat system, especially since I can open an overhead door (12' x 12' !) to run a car in or out, and not loose a lot of heated air. The "things" are warm and they and the floor warm the air again pretty quickly. I do not know if that matters with floor finishes or not....... but thought I'd mention it. I am reading ALL thoughts, opinions, comments, etc on this topic, but from the vantage point of a contractor that's a different point of view......
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6PakBee
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Charter Member Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: North Dakota Status: Online Points: 5457 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 8:28pm |
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If you feel you just have to grind the concrete, this is the machine to do it. A local coating store rents one and I have personally helped a friend (who went with two part epoxy) prep his floor using it. If you can run a floor buffer, you can run this.
http://www.rustoleum.com/product-catalog/industrial-brands/concrete-saver/prep-patch-and-repair/grind-n-go-machine |
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Roger Gazur
1969 'B' Scheme SC/Rambler 1970 RWB 4-spd Machine 1970 Sonic Silver auto AMX All project cars. Forum Cockroach |
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Ram Air Rick
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Joined: Jul/04/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2668 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 8:57pm |
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I had my garage floor professionally done with commercial grade Epoxy 5 years ago.
Looks as good as the day it was applied, and I do work on it occasionally. I've spilled gas, lacquer thinner, oil , you name it. Nary a mark on it. I've been told that if your floor does not have a vapor barrier under it (mine does) that it can be an issue (not sure). I got a smoking deal on this floor. As Holger alluded, the prep is one of the keys. They metal shot blasted the entire floor, and ground the concrete where it was not accessible by shot. Our company does a lot of work on data centers and in some instances, those rooms do not have raised floors but are epoxy. They get the snot beat out of them and while they might be a little duller than when initially installed, they don't chip etc.. I'm a believer... Rich C.  |
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rnscustom
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Joined: Sep/05/2012 Location: Plympton MA Status: Offline Points: 114 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 9:12pm |
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The Ferrari dealer near me has black and white checked vinyl tiles , didnt get close enough to see if they had anti slip in them . Looked real nice . They are usually real thick and solid all the way thru . Easy do it yourself product . I'll do that after I make doors for the kitchen cabinets ( 18 years with open cabinets , and she still keeps me around )
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FuzzFace2
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Joined: Jul/05/2007 Location: Angier, N.C. Status: Offline Points: 10356 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 9:26pm |
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Billd I do hear you on the slick floor when wet and I really did not want to say polish it before coating it.
I should have say more like ruff it up/sand it so in would have "tooth" of say 40 grit sand paper or maybe 36 so when the 'covering" was put down it would not be slick when wet. Kind of like they do on road ways where they grind in groves to let the water move off the road. Again not to deep of cuts to make it hard to clean but enough for water to sit in and not make it slick. Dave ---- |
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TSM = Technical Service Manual
75 Gremlin X v8 for sale 70 Javelin 360/auto drag car 70 Javelin 360/T5 Street car |
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billd
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Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 10:14pm |
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I think Rich is pulling my leg - I think he just dreams about working on his floor occasionally. I mean, really? That is the floor of a car dealership new car display, not the floor of a shop that gets worked in.
Seriously, guys, do NOT, I mean NOT let Barbara see the photos of his shop. I'd never hear the end of it - "how come your shop looks like @#$% and his looks so nice without a lot of junk laying around and everything picked up and put away. Come on Rich, tell me the truth - that's a photo out of a flooring magazine ad, right? That's not really a shop that gets worked in is it? Well you alluded to another thing that totally PO'd me about the guy that did my concrete, the lazy @##, he refused to put down vapor barrier. I mean REFUSED saying it would be so full of holes after his crew walked on it doing the concrete it would be worthless so he couldn't see wasting the time to put it down. I wish I had been there and had been firm - do it my way or leave, but he was supposed to be this great expert highly recommended, been doing it for decades, did concrete for the local college and all that. I suspect he did sidewalks and got lucky. I suspect my shop was the first job over 200 sq ft he'd ever done. Every single other thing I've had done, ever, any concrete for inside a building has had a vapor barrier and he convinced me that it wasn't worth the time or money and it was never really needed. I see the difference between my shop floor and the floor in the garage addition - which was done over 15 years ago, the minute hairline cracks have not moved in a decade, the concrete is still perfectly level, and still attached firmly to the main garage slab, has not shifted or anything bad. Anyway, the one outfit I talked to said there were two prices, once was $1/sq ft to remove the old finish - grind it off and that would also prep the floor. The other price was $4.50 for putting the epoxy coating on. That's $5.50/sq ft start to finish unless they need to grind down any high spots due to the shifting or leveling, then that's an extra $100+, depending on severity, etc. Another outfit said a flat $5.00/sq ft, prep and all. With $1/sq ft to remove the existing finish and grind the floor that's about $1050 for just the grinding and prep. OUCH. Really? I'm confused by this as I'd expect it to be the OPPOSITE - >>They metal shot blasted the entire floor, and ground the concrete where it was not accessible by shot.<< Uh, wouldn't the shot be able to get where grinding could not reach, back into corners, while grinding would be better for the bulk of the floor but grinding be unable to reach under, around, behind, in corners, etc. - Seriously, some parts I prep I use sanding for the flat and accessible areas, then blast what I can't sand because I can't reach it, but blasting can reach anything......... Imagine all that shot all over the place...... Yeah, Dave - polishing concrete makes me nervous - ohhh! Pretty! Shiny! oooohh.. but oh so slick when damp or wet. And our springs, heck, RIGHT NOW the temps and humidity are so weird that if I open the shop doors the floor is WET quickly, it would be a 1050 sq ft skating rink - no skates needed! I know it would look cool, but not be practical to walk on when it was even just wet, or if you came in with WET shoes, you'd see shoe marks 6 feet across the floor from people falling on their butts. Or is polished concrete not slick at all?????  |
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Peter Marano
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Joined: Jul/01/2007 Location: Kenosha WI Status: Offline Points: 1650 |
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Posted: Sep/01/2015 at 10:44pm |
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When I first saw polished concrete I suggested it would be slippery. He responded by pouring water on the floor. It was not slippery. I suspect snow would be slippery, snow makes our non polished floor slippery.
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SirDigger wrote: