Flash-o-Matic Shift Points

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   I have a '65 classic 199/6 with D1/D2 transmission. When I start out in D2, the 3 gear shift point does not hit until 38-40 MPH on flat roads and normal driving. Sounds like I am lugging the engine.  Is this a "normal" shift point? From what I can tell in the TSM, it reads 55 MPH, this too appears to high a speed.   

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Mickey12 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: May/25/2018 Location: Kansas City, Mo Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mickey12 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Flash-o-Matic Shift Points Posted: Aug/18/2018 at 1:25pm
	I have a '65 classic 199/6 with D1/D2 transmission. When I start out in D2, the 3 gear shift point does not hit until 38-40 MPH on flat roads and normal driving. Sounds like I am lugging the engine. Is this a "normal" shift point? From what I can tell in the TSM, it reads 55 MPH, this too appears to high a speed.

george w Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/27/2013 Location: New Jersey Status: Offline Points: 2899	Post Options Post Reply Quote george w Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/18/2018 at 7:38pm
	You're not lugging the engine with that high of a shift point, just the opposite. If anything the shift point is too high unless you're at wide open throttle. At WOT the 2 to 3 shift point should typically fall in the 55 to 65 mph range depending on axle ratio and tire size. Normal driving should be done in D1 where you have all three forward gears. Not familiar with the BW automatics used with the torque tube models. Depending on how your transmission is controlled you sound like you may need a throttle linkage adjustment to bring down the "normal" upshift points. If you're transmission uses a vacuum modulator then it may need an adjustment. Typically when accelerating at "moderate" throttle you would expect to see a 1-2 shift at about 12-20 mph and a 2-3 at about 25 to 30.
	Long time AMC fan. Ambassador 343, AMX 390, Hornet 360, Spirit 304 and Javelin 390. All but javelin bought new.

FSJunkie Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742	Post Options Post Reply Quote FSJunkie Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/18/2018 at 10:16pm
	30-50 MPH for the 2-3 upshift is pretty normal. The speed of the 2-3 upshift should be the same in D1 and D2 if the throttle position is the same. In D2, that will be the only shift. I'd always drive it in D1. Asking the 199 to push a Classic off the line in 2nd gear isn't doing it any favors. It'll thank you for a 1st gear start. Keep in mind the engine works pretty hard to move the car. The transmission is going to let the RPM wind up pretty high because of that. Edited by FSJunkie - Aug/18/2018 at 10:23pm
	1955 Packard 1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited

Mickey12 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: May/25/2018 Location: Kansas City, Mo Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mickey12 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/19/2018 at 7:44am
	Great information. Just what I wanted to hear. Thanks!!!!!!

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19672	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/20/2018 at 6:11am
	The 199 was only used in 65 in the Classic. 66 models only got the 232 six -- the 199 just didn't perform all that well in the big car. By 65 driving styles had changed a lot from the 50s! That's also why the 2nd gear start went away by 67, Flashomatic replaced with Shift Command. That started with the 65 floor shift models, but by 67 even column shifts were Shift Command. Most 65 Classics with 199 were plain Jane fleet cars for company transportation. Very few "civilian" models, but every now and then there was someone who was a real miser who ordered one.
	Frank Swygert

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/20/2018 at 9:47pm
	do you have a technical service manual? you really need to adjust the throttle cable to the transmission correctly. it makes a world of difference, if the adjustment's way off you can do real harm. it's also very easy to adjust! but the process is very specific. its probably ehre in a thread somewhere. a TSM is invaluable. it's worth whatever you have to pay for it.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com

farna Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19672	Post Options Post Reply Quote farna Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/21/2018 at 6:02am
	1. Make sure the fast idle/choke isn't set on the car, and it's on the regular idle stop 2. Adjust able to a "loose pin" fit (pin slips in and out easily). Then adjust two turns long. Two pointers: Make sure the cable moves in and out rather easily with the clevis gripped between thumb and one finger. If it takes too much effort it may not move with the throttle. You an adjust about 1 to 1.5 turns longer for a bit harder shifting, but if you go 2 more turns (4 total) you will end up kicking down to second (passing gear) when trying to maintain 55-60 or so going up a hill. The TV cable also acts as a kick-down, and pressure/kick-down aren't separately adjustable. When the cable "bottoms out" under a certain speed (around 60) the trans will kick down. The cable pushes in as the throttle is opened. You might find this happening at 1.5 turns, if so just reduce length by 1/2 turn. If your able is stiff there are some things you an do to loosen it up, just let me know!
	Frank Swygert

Mickey12 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Fan Joined: May/25/2018 Location: Kansas City, Mo Status: Offline Points: 13	Post Options Post Reply Quote Mickey12 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/21/2018 at 8:06am
	Thanks, I'll check that out.

Javelin69 Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Dec/11/2013 Location: Madison wi Status: Offline Points: 187	Post Options Post Reply Quote Javelin69 Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/28/2018 at 10:27am
	If I follow what you're saying Frank is that ideally the cable should be fully pushed in at wide open throttle. When i push the cable by hand, at about 3/4 travel it feels like it is tripping a mechanism in the trans. I figured that was the kick down point, but maybe that's not correct. In any event I suppose you don't want it to try to push in further than when the cable is bottomed. I guess it might require some trial and error to dial it in.

tomj Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7539	Post Options Post Reply Quote tomj Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/28/2018 at 11:48pm
	javelin69 that's probably what you;r'e feeling. mine was just like that. conversely, it means that the cable is good and not dragging and you can feel what it's doing; if it was dry, rusty or kinked it wouldn't move so nicely. if there's a lot of slop/play in the throttle linkage it will mess with the shift cable, but that's easily checked. actually it doesn't really need much dialing in. with the carb in decent enough order, all warmed up (so the fast idle is NOT on!), idle set right -- the 'slip fit pin plus two turns' adjustment is spot on. i remember messing with the extra-turn-longer (extra turn pushed in cable) but the fun wore off fast and i ended up stock. the idle business is important, because it determines the position where the clevis fitment is done.
	1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto 1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com