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Factory Oil Pump Gears, Timing Cover

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ChillyB View Drop Down
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    Posted: Mar/12/2019 at 1:15pm
Guys

Going through timing cover, pump, filter housing while engine is at the machine shop.  Never been inside an AMC V8 before, but the workmanship seems lacking in a couple of areas.  Wondering if it's "normal".

Pump gears were in good shape in that the shaft was not worn and the teeth werent chewed up.  The bad news is they look just as poorly machined as the day they were made.  Ends of gears had very rough machine marks.  Very tips of each tooth is rough as if the gear was hobbed from a blank that had been very roughly turned.  While the tips dont make contact with the adjacent gear, they do form the close tolerance to the cavity wall.  The rough ends hadnt scored the filter housing too badly yet.

The pump cavity itself is also very rough.  Does not seem to be scored, just poorly machined.  Like the boring tool advanced way too quickly, and with a dull insert.

Finally, every edge of the timing cover had folded over machining burrs.  The holes for distributer and oil pump drive gear were especially bad.  No appearance of hand work to debur post-machining.

Is this pretty much how it was done in 1973?  Or did I get a piece-worker's Monday-after-Superbowl special?  

Not disappointed or irritated.  More curious than anything about the manufacturing quality of the era. 
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Doug213 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug213 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/12/2019 at 2:02pm
When I pulled off the pump cover both gears fell out the drive gear was NOT attached to the drive shaft. Apparently 73 wasn't ome of AMCs better tries???
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1982AMCConcord View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1982AMCConcord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 6:25am
Two good sources about the oil pump modifications...

http://www.planethoustonamx.com/main/amc%20oil%20modification%20setup.htm



Edited by 1982AMCConcord - Mar/13/2019 at 7:55am
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White70JavelinSST View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote White70JavelinSST Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 7:51am
I couldn't get 82AMCConcords link to Planet Houston to work, so I searched for it and found this



Is this the same page you were on 82AMCConcord ?

Tried his link again and cleaned it up a bit, came up with this page






Edited by White70JavelinSST - Mar/13/2019 at 7:57am
70 Javelin SST, second owner, purchased 1972
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1982AMCConcord Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 7:56am
Originally posted by White70JavelinSST White70JavelinSST wrote:

I couldn't get 82AMCConcords link to Planet Houston to work, so I searched for it and found this



Is this the same page you were on 82AMCConcord ?

No.. but that is a good one.. I meant to send this link... but I accidentally screwed up the link. I corrected it above now... but here it is again...

http://www.planethoustonamx.com/main/amc%20oil%20modification%20setup.htm
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Doug213 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Doug213 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 11:20am
   According to factory specs your supposed to have .002 between the flat edge of the pump housing using a flat machinists ruler without gasket. I set mine up using plastigauge (like the utube guy) & I'm hoping .004 is going to be enough the thinest gasket I had was .007 if you add .002 clearance from the edge plus .007 for the gasket it's .009 assembled
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ChillyB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChillyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 11:29am
You could lap the machined face of the timing cover to shorten up the gear cavity if you end up with excessive clearance with a thin gasket.  I lapped the ratty ends of my gears so I anticipate needing to do that on mine.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Doug213 Doug213 wrote:

When I pulled off the pump cover both gears fell out the drive gear was NOT attached to the drive shaft. Apparently 73 wasn't ome of AMCs better tries???


This is normal- nothing holds them in but the filter adapter. Look at pictures in the TSM to understand how the system works
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/13/2019 at 9:12pm
If worried about the bottom scoring, you can make a piece of brass shim stock as a bearing material in the bottom.
The scoring is usually particulate in the oil as the gears will form an oil wedge.
I don't do the brass but like to help the oil wedge top and bottom by taking off the sharp edge of the gears. You will loose a minute amount of oil pressure as this creates a bypass zone, but if equal will center the gears in the housing.
Everything has it's give and take.
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ChillyB View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChillyB Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/14/2019 at 6:43pm
Lapped the filter housing this evening.  It had some decent scoring but it was also surprisingly not very flat aside from the scratches.  I lapped until I had 100% cleanup, but didnt go until all circular scratches were gone.  The volume loss due to remaining scratches would be insignificant compared to the overall flatness error I corrected.  Used small files to whittle away some internal burrs.  I also filed back the external casting flash since I had it in my hands with files at the ready.

Noticed something curious about the pressure bypass.  The bypass passage has a circular seat for the valve, but it appears the stem on the end is seating against the opposite wall.  So what limits the closed travel of the valve?  The circular seat, or the stem?  Could it be that the valve is held slightly off its circular seat allowing a tiny amount of flow so the oil doesnt stagnate into a solid turd behind the bypass valve?  I filled the passage ahead of the valve with water (holding my thumb over the other end), and didnt see significant leakage past the tappet but hardly a scientific test.  
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