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Engine swap 85 to 88 Eagle |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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There us a fair bit of validity to this warning. The reasons behind it
will very as to who reports the problem and their mechanical capability
of actually swapping a drive gear on to the distributor shaft itself.
The probability of sub standard parts out there and maybe a few other
things. Gear loading on the gear to cam shaft relationship has been
known to be critical in a controlled environment. Factor in doing this
on your own engine, the grease and contamination around, poorly
controlled measuriing and drilling conditions and little or no knowledge
as to what the correct pre-load should actually be and the knowledge of
how to obtain it are problems. And on the other hand, it has gone well
for a lot of people.
This of course raises the question of whether it is actually needed or not, there for worth the money. Basic Physics theory says if a spark at the spark plug exists that is adequate to ignite the fuel in the cylinder, a greater potential spark has no value. A selling point, an expensive selling point is the spark intensity is higher. It is, but if it is not needed then what is the value. If I had a perfectly good distributor that worked as it should I see no value in replacing it with an HEI distributor no matter how good they are. Only if I had a bad distributor no mater what the type would I consider the cost benefit of using one worth the time and money. Another argument is you do not have to adjust the points. WOWEE! If you know how to adjust them, and that is a requirement, then what is the benefit . The best of the points available new are under a saw buck. And I know how to adjust them. In fact I just removed and sold an HEI distributor and replaced it with a standard points distributor and an $8.00 set of points. Why? It was a space problem, the HEI distributor did not fit in the space available. The HEI distributor arguments for remind me of an old street vendor joke. Apples 2 for a quarter are only worth it if 1- u need an apple and 2-U have a quarter. I don't NEED an HEI, all my engines run just fine with out one. |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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That's for the V-9 applications. I've never heard of a problem with the sixes in regards to cam gear.
What you DO need to watch for is oil pump binding. If the distributor doesn't bottom out on the block don't force it down with the hold-down clamp. Instead, get a washer or two large enough to go over the distributor body (may have to grind the washer a bit to fit against the block, and/or grind/file hole to fit). If you clamp it down the gears in the oil pump bind and can cause the pump or distributor shaft to shear or pump to seize. |
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Frank Swygert
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carnuck
AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/31/2010 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 3942 |
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There have been a few 6 cyls get the cam gear wiped, but it's usually because of cam walk and not the hard/soft gear issue.
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Got an Eagle?
http://forums.amceaglesden.com |
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tojwalk
AMC Fan Joined: Jan/10/2014 Location: 65775 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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Hello, Can anybody give me some guidance on this distributor converision. AMC JEEP 232/258 HEI alt. TFI UPGRADE KIT CJ YJ FSJ JUICEBOX GOLD 6 http://www.ebay.com/itm/351114480201 Thanks, James |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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You can use either the GM HEI or Ford style TFI conversion and get the same results. If you already have the Duraspark distributor I'd go with the TFI. I prefer the TFI over the HEI anyway. Cheaper, AMC six xylinder Duraspark dizzys are easy enough to find. Six cylinder HEIs are harder to find in salvage yards/used, but you can get new ones.
The link is a TFI upgrade. Looks good for what you're getting. |
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Frank Swygert
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tojwalk
AMC Fan Joined: Jan/10/2014 Location: 65775 Status: Offline Points: 25 |
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I'm back to where I can start removing the engine to get at the rusted areas, and do some front end and rear end work. any input would be appreciated! Thanks, James |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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i place jack stands on the area of what looks like the frame just behind the location where the strut rod and it's bracket are bolted on to the frame. Or what looks like a frame as it is a built up area of sheet metal welded together to look like a frame. That is a large area and generally free from rust so it is still strong. One on each side. That places the whole front of the car hanging over the end of the jack stands. I use a short piece of 2x4 used as a block to distribute the weight on to the jack stands. If you look at this picture carefully you may be able to get an idea where they are:
you can just see the one on the passenger side about where the dog is looking. This then leaves everything forward of that point free to take apart or what ever you want to do wile supporting the car. And that includes using a second set of jack stands as shown to hold the front of the car in position. This picture is demonstrating what it took to insure the alignment of replacement frame rails removed from a Concord and placed in position on a Spirit based AMX and welded into place and the painted and the missing items were then re-installed. Why? due to rust. You can do this to fish plate the areas of concern on your car. It sounds like you need to work around your engine with out removing it and that can be done this way by first supporting the car and then unbolting and supporting the engine etc. giving room to work around things. I would think. Edited by uncljohn - Aug/25/2014 at 3:22am |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Here is where I normally place jackstands to support the front of the car - as I often don't want stands clear to the front interfering with jack placement or me sliding under the car.
Engine removal is best done from the bottom and don't even THINK about letting that front differential hang there on the axles like some have done. Some folks pull the engine and leave the differential hanging. Bad, very bad idea. Pull the differential and then the engine if you are doing the old "out the top" method, but with Eagles, it's a whole lot easier out the bottom!. Drop the whole bloody drive-train out the bottom onto dollies or something. You'll be glad you did. NO wrestling at all, no fighting to get things to line up, no messing with bell housing bolts you can't get to, no fumbling with exhaust pipes and manifold nuts and studs and so on. It's how the factory did it - up and in from the bottom. I put my engine/transmission/transfercase in by myself - with a ripped bicep in my left arm and I'm very left-handed, using the up and in from the bottom method. Here in the circle is where I place jackstands. Just ahead of the rear cross member. I don't use blocks of wood because they can and will slip at times. I've watched it happen more than one time. Not on my cars as I have not done it that way, but the wood is a point of slippage. It also IMO negates the "ears" present on most decent stands which prevent sliding in at least 2 possible directions. When I had the Eagle in the below photo on stands for this work I had 2 stands under the rear axle tubes and stands where indicated by the circle in the photo. To get the engine assembly out from under the car I placed a stout 4x4 across the front ends of the frame rails and hooked the chain from my gantry crane/chain hoist to the 4x4 and raised the car up high. Rear axle was on those stands, gantry crane holding up the front end so it was all pretty high in the air and I could slide/roll the engine out from under the car pretty easily. I then set the car back down on the stands, again where the circle is in the photo. All other work on the car was done with it on those 4 stands - the two under the rear differential axle tubes, and the fronts as shown. To roll the car outside for pressure washing, I set a 4x4 across the bottom part of the gantry crane and let the car rest on that in the front, set the rear off the stands and simply pulled/pushed the car outside, pressure washed the engine bay, then pushed it back into my shop, raised it up again and set it on the stands. AMC made several places they call jack points over the years. If it's fine for their cheap little jacks it's fine for a much more solid stand. Granted the Eagle uses bumper jacks, but the points are still there on these cars as they share a lot of the same body components. I supported my cars from here since my very first AMC back in the early 1970s. Never had a slip, never bent or creased any sheet metal. The eagle is a pretty heavy car for AMC, comparatively speaking. In this picture the line is where the rear cross member sits on the frame rails, the circle is roughly where I place stands. Otherwise where the stands are shown in the other photo, up front near the front ends of the frame rails. Placement will depend on what you need clear access to and where your damaged areas are. I use pretty decent quality stands - I don't trust my life and limb to stands from WalMart for $19.95. I've got a full set of 4 heavy stands from NAPA and a pair my dad gave me a few years back when he quit crawling under cars and a pair I made when I needed to extend a Case tractor frame. (although the bulk of the tractor weight was on timbers, my stands supported the axle and some other parts) |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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I prefer HEI - IF using a GM unit. They aren't that bad to find at the older smaller yards. The GM/Chevy 250 used a perfect setup. The GM HEI is simple, reliable, you need just 1 (ONE) wire to run it, and the AMC late model V8 gear fits the GM shaft and engages the AMC 6 cam gear fine. You must watch the flats on the shaft that they are high enough to allow full insertion of the distributor into the block, but that's the only "watch out for" involved. I used one of the leads that had gone to the Motorcrap system to power my HEI. To me the Motorcraft system is too complex and unreliable. I can get parts for GM HEI as WalMart or any parts store. It's 100% stock parts that way, nothing fancy. A stock GM distributor/HEI system, off-the-shelf parts, and no fancy wiring tricks. Plug and play as we say in IT. 1 wire, 1 hose. I know folks prefer the Motorcraft/TFI and all those "upgrades" but to me it's not really much of an upgrade - and I wonder why the preference? I've always wanted to ask, if the GM distributors were not hard to find in the areas where these other folks live, taking away that "reason" or "excuse" then would they still prefer TFI and why? What are all of the advantages of Motorcraft/TFI over HEI? Off the shelf parts? Simple wiring? Reliability? Don't use "hot spark" as the ignition system always only ever puts out enough to fire the plug and maintain a spark. All else is wasted capacity. 200 gigavolts of potential are absolutely meaningless if the engine is solid and only requires 25KV to fire. 50KV, 100KV, it's a joke or bragging rights in an AMC 6. You don't need a hotter spark than the stock system can muster, and HEI itself is overkill in that department - I simply prefer it due to the sheer simplicity and ease of troubleshooting. It's a piece of cake to figure out if by chance it does stop working. Any fool can troubleshoot an HEI and fix it with parts from any place that sells auto parts so it has always left me wondering - why opt for the other systems......... Maybe there's something I've missed or overlooked in all these years. |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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As long as the car is stable it really doesn't matter where you put the jack stands. Obviously not in a thin area like directly under the floor, but on any of the braced areas, even the brace running under the seat. Under one of the sills ("frame rails") is best, but anywhere they aren't in your way and the surface is sound and sturdy is good. You mentioned working on rusted areas, so they might interfere with your work. Might be a good idea to place them furthest apart while removing the engine then jack the car up and move as needed when doing your rust repair. The car won't weigh near as much and weight distribution will change once the drivetrain is out.
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Frank Swygert
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