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Edelbrock heads vs Indy |
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texasamx
AMC Apprentice Joined: Apr/07/2010 Location: Texas Status: Offline Points: 56 |
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My son and I used the Edelbrock heads on our 401 build and so far we're pleased.
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Ken_Parkman
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814 |
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The AMC dog leg can be made to flow astonishingly well. It is quite a bit larger than the Edelbrock in csa although both have quite a variation through the port length. If you port the iron head right (and it is simple but not necessarily intuitive) you can keep the flow attached to the SSR and get truly astonishing flow numbers. The phenomena is a fairly advanced aerodynamic trick that I'll bet the AMC engineers had no clue about 50 years ago. Blind luck is great. The Edelbrock cannot get even remotely close. For that matter an iron can outflow an Indy. When you get a bunch of various heads across the bench over the years you get to realize just how good the dog leg is flow wise.
However, one thing to remember is flow bench conditions are unrelated to a running engine. In the blowdown phase the exhaust flow is sonic, and the temp is in the 1400 F range. Name a flowbench that can do that. Many (me included) consider a flowbench fairly useless for developing exhaust. I do not care what the flow is. I do care what the port size and shape is. So is the amazingly good dog leg exhaust port flow (with the right porting) a good thing? Does the fact that you can keep the flow attached to the SSR at flowbench conditions matter? I don't know. |
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jcisworthy
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/23/2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2805 |
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Iron heads are much closer but need some opening up to match.
I am not matching the gasket on the bottom because there will not be enough sealing surface if I do. I will have some flow numbers on it tomorrow with a valve job and porting. The Edelbrock head has a taller short turn before it transitions to the floor and the shape is a little different inside. It seems like the went with a more simple shape. I was at a seminar when someone asked Ed Iskenderian what he thought about the exhaust. His reply was, "I don't think about it, it gets out". I feel the same way. NA heads are all about getting the air in the intake side and the exhaust will find a way out. This exhaust flow of these heads will support a plenty of power.
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Specializing in dyno services, engine building, and cylinder head porting
rbjracing.com Phone Number 518-915-3203 |
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steinercj5
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/29/2016 Location: Kenosha Wi Status: Offline Points: 144 |
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So here's my question... Take a running and driving mild performance build with untouched iron heads and replace with Edelbrock out of the box heads (for sake of argument, cc's are the same and compression remains the same). What kind of performance difference will be felt? Noticeable? Little? I understand the weight savings of alum and ability to build for higher CR with same octane fuel is also part of the reason to go with aluminum heads- just trying to compare apples to apples.
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jcisworthy
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/23/2009 Location: North Carolina Status: Offline Points: 2805 |
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If the runner volumes were the same there would probalby not be much difference.
That is one area where the Edelbrock heads shine. They have the runner volume of a well ported iron head and a bowl that cannot be matched with iron without hitting water. |
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Specializing in dyno services, engine building, and cylinder head porting
rbjracing.com Phone Number 518-915-3203 |
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shootist
AMC Addicted Joined: May/24/2012 Location: Triad, NC Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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Interesting discussion. KingsX, I am very pleased with my setup and the Edelbrock heads work just fine. The largest problem that I have is getting traction. You will have none on the streets guaranteed regardless of which head you choose. So, unless you are trying to be as comptetive as possible the Eddy heads are a great bolt on that require little to no work. If you were near me I would take you for a spin and let you see for yourself. The thing is quite extreme and scares me everytime I stomp the long skinny pedal.
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Class Guy
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/02/2007 Location: Arkansas Status: Offline Points: 969 |
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Ken Parkman: "So is the amazingly good dog leg exhaust port flow (with the right porting) a good thing? Does the fact that you can keep the flow attached to the SSR at flowbench conditions matter?"
My experience says Yes and Yes. Of course, the related components in the engine package (headers, valves and camshaft events) come into play.
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Addicted to acceleration.
Owner and Admin for www.classracerinfo.com |
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Ken_Parkman
AMC Addicted Joined: Jun/04/2009 Location: Ontario Status: Offline Points: 1814 |
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Interesting that all out drag race high compression high speed stuff has gone for smaller and smaller exhaust valves and ports. Apparently that technology is considered too small for Nascar - exhaust system maybe? And newer factory stuff seems to have fairly small exhaust ports.
But what is also interesting is I do not see more recent race designs that are closer to stock port locations using the perhaps inadvertent AMC Aerodynamic trick. I've never seen ANYTHING with a factory type port location touch what an AMC exhaust can flow, and I've had a lot of stuff across the bench. |
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jtsllc1
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/24/2013 Location: ORFORDVILLE WI Status: Offline Points: 1035 |
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Kaplan designed the dogleg to widen the floor of the port.... I am sure if someone would have asked Kaplan the right questions when they interviewed him he might have mentioned this. Now if you look at the Trapezoid head the floor is also wider. Now look at the picture of the blue print and decide for your self. I.M.O. it is not just a notch that means nothing but understanding and using the dogleg properly will gain some HP. Flowing in the 200 CFM range is no problem with a 1.625 valve but what you need to ask yourself is what percentage are you shooting for between the exhaust and the intake. After this has been determined just call up Erson with your flow numbers and they will run it through their program giving you some cam options for your application... I ordered on Monday and the cam was to my door by Wednesday... As far as heads I see no reason to use any after market head for high flow numbers to .500 lift and as for the exhaust well the iron head is just perfect... For this reason the AMC has a good chance to run well with this years rules for the EMC.
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JTSLLC1
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shootist
AMC Addicted Joined: May/24/2012 Location: Triad, NC Status: Offline Points: 1023 |
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I will say that the upside for Kings application and selecting an aluminum head is going to be the additional heat dispersion inherrent in aluminum heads. Since he is running on the street and running boost, that is one thing that makes them worth buying. I also don't think the guy who spends 4-6k on a supoercharger is going to be too concerned with spending 2k on a set of aluminum heads especially if it means he has better detonation resistance which in a supercharged vehicle I will take every fractional bit of help I can to avoid.
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