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Edelbrock and Summit cams are made by... |
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Greyhounds_AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/14/2009 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Posted: Apr/29/2016 at 2:23pm |
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Crane.
I’m pretty confident that they’re Crane lobes, but they could be machined about anywhere
of course. Crane makes lots of private label cams, including the Ford
Motorsport and Mopar Performance cams. The lobe design just looks too much like Crane’s HP series,
which is the most gentle profile they offer. These are
equivalent to factory style lobes, except with more lift and duration.
Here’s the two Edelbrock cams and the HP lobes used: Edelbrock 2132: 278/288, 204/214@0.050, 0.448/0.472 lift, uses lobes HP-204/2800 and HP-214/2947 Edelbrock 7132: 310/320, 234/244@0.050, 0.520/0.544 lift, uses lobes HP-234/3254 and HP-244/3400 And
a similar combination of HP lobes are used to make the two Summit cams: Summit K8600: 289/300, 214/224@0.050,
0.473/0.497 lift, uses lobes HP-214/2947 and HP-224/3100 Summit K8601: 300/304, 224/234@0.050,
0.497/0.521 lift, uses lobes HP-224/3100 and HP-224/3254
The
ramps on these among the slower of available off the shelf hydraulic cams,
with a Hydraulic Intensity of about 56, depending on the lobe. That’s the amount
of degrees it takes to get from 0.004” to 0.050” plus the degrees from
0.050” to 0.004” on the closing ramp, so lower numbers mean faster ramps. Slow
ramps cost power, but are quieter and last longer. Here’s a range of Hydraulic
Intensity data of other cam profiles offered for AMC: Isky Supercams use HI = 61 Crane HMV cams use a HI = 56 Comp High Energy cams use HI = 51.6 Comp Xtreme Energy use HI = 45.8 (intake)
The
overall lobe agressiveness for the HP profile is about average for a 0.842
lifter profile. For me the best indicator of this is to look at the intensity
from 0.050” to 0.200” in degrees, and for these lobes that number runs around
91. Just like Hydraulic Intensity, a lower number indicates a more aggressive lobe
because less duration is required to achieve a given amount of lift. Some
comparison points: Isky Supercams use 95 degrees Comp High Energy cams use about 95 degrees Crane HMV cams use 89 degrees Comp Xtreme Energy use about 87.5 degrees
(intake) Crane H3 lobes use about 84 degrees, and are
0.904” lifter specific Comp XE4X4 lobes use about 83 degrees, and
again are 0.904” lifter specific With the reasonably slow ramps and average lobe aggressiveness these should run pretty quiet and last a long time, and should be much less prone to eating up lifters than say a Comp cam would. If you’ve got an engine block that has struggled with lifter issues possible due to lifter bore wear etc, these cams might be a good choice. But if you’re looking for higher performance levels, there are better choices out there. Edited by Greyhounds_AMX - Apr/29/2016 at 7:44pm |
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1968 AMX 390 w/T5
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Greyhounds_AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/14/2009 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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One thing I didn't discuss is the discrepancy in advertised durations. For private label stuff the cam manufacturer's will often pick different lift points than the typical 0.004" or 0.006" tappet lift in order to make the cam look bigger, smaller, or just different, and that becomes the "advertised" duration. The duration at 0.050" can't lie, nor can the total lift.
We see the same cam sold by Edelbrock, Melling, Blue Racer, etc, and it's rated 270/280 by some and 278/288 by others. It really makes for a confusing time when you try to compare. Crane typically uses 0.004" lifter rise for advertised durations, but some Crane cams are advertised at 0.0044", some 0.003", and some even 0.009". Isky uses 0.007", Crower uses 0.005", Comp uses 0.006", etc. What a mess. |
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1968 AMX 390 w/T5
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amc67rogue
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/05/2008 Location: Phx. AZ. Status: Offline Points: 1578 |
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IIRC the SAE. standard was .006. All the variation out there it just there to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
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one bad rambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2008 Location: On The Island Status: Offline Points: 2007 |
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I bought a summit cam years ago and i remember asking if it was ground by crane and they would`t tell me..I wish they made a broader selection for AMC...
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68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8
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nda racer
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/28/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2591 |
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22 years ago I asked the guy working the counter at Summit racing who made their Cams. He said Crane.
It's an ancient grind, so ya can offer it cheap. |
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akimmet
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/02/2012 Location: Republic OH Status: Offline Points: 428 |
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I have seen these grinds called "The Old Federal Mogul Grinds". As you noticed, almost every private label camshaft uses these patterns. I have seen these same patterns adapted to almost every engine imaginable that uses hydraulic flat tappets.
I think Camshaft Machine Company (CMC) grinds these private label cams for everyone. If I'm not mistaken, Craned owned CMC in the past. |
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nda racer
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/28/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2591 |
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Sounds plausible enough... Yep, everybody and their brother has sold these generic grinds. PAW, etc.
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Greyhounds_AMX
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/14/2009 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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If you combine the Edlebrock and Summit offerings it's a pretty cohesive group: E2132 270/280 204/214 0.448/0.472 110/105 K8600 280/290 214/224 0.473/0.497 112/107 K8601 290/300 224/234 0.497/0.520 114/109 E7132 300/310 234/234 0.520/0.544 112/107 I just don't think that old HP lobe design is worth spending money on, and the lobe separations are a little wide as well. I'm also finding that many cam companies and independent performance engine builders favor less duration split for heads that flow as good as ours do. Anything from 0 to 4 degrees of duration difference has been recommended to me, but never 10 degrees. Brand C heads needed that I suppose, so everybody ended up getting it. Edited by Greyhounds_AMX - May/03/2016 at 1:04pm |
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1968 AMX 390 w/T5
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one bad rambler
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2008 Location: On The Island Status: Offline Points: 2007 |
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68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8
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tsanchez
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/09/2007 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 4303 |
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Those cams are in my 1980 trw catalog, which became federal mogul I believe
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