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Edelbrock and Summit cams are made by...

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Greyhounds_AMX View Drop Down
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    Posted: Apr/29/2016 at 2:23pm
Crane.

I’m pretty confident that they’re Crane lobes, but they could be machined about anywhere of course. Crane makes lots of private label cams, including the Ford Motorsport and Mopar Performance cams. The lobe design just looks too much like Crane’s HP series, which is the most gentle profile they offer. These are equivalent to factory style lobes, except with more lift and duration.

Here’s the two Edelbrock cams and the HP lobes used:

   Edelbrock 2132: 278/288, 204/214@0.050, 0.448/0.472 lift, uses lobes HP-204/2800 and HP-214/2947  

   Edelbrock 7132: 310/320, 234/244@0.050, 0.520/0.544 lift, uses lobes HP-234/3254 and HP-244/3400




And a similar combination of HP lobes are used to make the two Summit cams:

    Summit K8600: 289/300, 214/224@0.050, 0.473/0.497 lift, uses lobes HP-214/2947 and HP-224/3100

    Summit K8601: 300/304, 224/234@0.050, 0.497/0.521 lift, uses lobes HP-224/3100 and HP-224/3254

 


The ramps on these among the slower of available off the shelf hydraulic cams, with a Hydraulic Intensity of about 56, depending on the lobe. That’s the amount of degrees it takes to get from 0.004” to 0.050” plus the degrees from 0.050” to 0.004” on the closing ramp, so lower numbers mean faster ramps. Slow ramps cost power, but are quieter and last longer. Here’s a range of Hydraulic Intensity data of other cam profiles offered for AMC:

   Isky Supercams use HI = 61

   Crane HMV cams use a HI = 56

   Comp High Energy cams use HI = 51.6

   Comp Xtreme Energy use HI = 45.8 (intake)

 

The overall lobe agressiveness for the HP profile is about average for a 0.842 lifter profile. For me the best indicator of this is to look at the intensity from 0.050” to 0.200” in degrees, and for these lobes that number runs around 91. Just like Hydraulic Intensity, a lower number indicates a more aggressive lobe because less duration is required to achieve a given amount of lift. Some comparison points:

   Isky Supercams use 95 degrees

   Comp High Energy cams use about 95 degrees

   Crane HMV cams use 89 degrees

   Comp Xtreme Energy use about 87.5 degrees (intake)

   Crane H3 lobes use about 84 degrees, and are 0.904” lifter specific

   Comp XE4X4 lobes use about 83 degrees, and again are 0.904” lifter specific


With the reasonably slow ramps and average lobe aggressiveness these should run pretty quiet and last a long time, and should be much less prone to eating up lifters than say a Comp cam would. If you’ve got an engine block that has struggled with lifter issues possible due to lifter bore wear etc, these cams might be a good choice. But if you’re looking for higher performance levels, there are better choices out there.



Edited by Greyhounds_AMX - Apr/29/2016 at 7:44pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2016 at 7:30pm
One thing I didn't discuss is the discrepancy in advertised durations. For private label stuff the cam manufacturer's will often pick different lift points than the typical 0.004" or 0.006" tappet lift in order to make the cam look bigger, smaller, or just different, and that becomes the "advertised" duration. The duration at 0.050" can't lie, nor can the total lift.

We see the same cam sold by Edelbrock, Melling, Blue Racer, etc, and it's rated 270/280 by some and 278/288 by others. It really makes for a confusing time when you try to compare.

Crane typically uses 0.004" lifter rise for advertised durations, but some Crane cams are advertised at 0.0044", some 0.003", and some even 0.009". Isky uses 0.007", Crower uses 0.005", Comp uses 0.006", etc.

What a mess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amc67rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2016 at 9:29am
IIRC the SAE. standard was .006. All the variation out there it just there to make $$$$$$$$$$$$$.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote one bad rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2016 at 10:11am
I bought a summit cam years ago and i remember asking if it was ground by crane and they would`t tell me..I wish they made a broader selection for AMC...
68 AMX 390 4 Speed,68 American,64 American 2 Door Wagon Altered Wheelbase,78 Concord Build 360,727,8.8
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nda racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2016 at 10:42am
22 years ago I asked the guy working the counter at Summit racing who made their Cams. He said Crane.

It's an ancient grind, so ya can offer it cheap.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akimmet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2016 at 10:26am
I have seen these grinds called "The Old Federal Mogul Grinds". As you noticed, almost every private label camshaft uses these patterns. I have seen these same patterns adapted to almost every engine imaginable that uses hydraulic flat tappets.
I think Camshaft Machine Company (CMC) grinds these private label cams for everyone. If I'm not mistaken, Craned owned CMC in the past.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nda racer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2016 at 2:40pm
Sounds plausible enough... Yep, everybody and their brother has sold these generic grinds. PAW, etc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Greyhounds_AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 1:00pm
Originally posted by one bad rambler one bad rambler wrote:

I bought a summit cam years ago and i remember asking if it was ground by crane and they would`t tell me..I wish they made a broader selection for AMC...
 
If you combine the Edlebrock and Summit offerings it's a pretty cohesive group:
 
E2132  270/280  204/214  0.448/0.472  110/105
K8600  280/290  214/224  0.473/0.497  112/107
K8601  290/300  224/234  0.497/0.520  114/109
E7132  300/310  234/234  0.520/0.544  112/107
 
I just don't think that old HP lobe design is worth spending money on, and the lobe separations are a little wide as well. I'm also finding that many cam companies and independent performance engine builders favor less duration split for heads that flow as good as ours do. Anything from 0 to 4 degrees of duration difference has been recommended to me, but never 10 degrees. Brand C heads needed that I suppose, so everybody ended up getting it.
 


Edited by Greyhounds_AMX - May/03/2016 at 1:04pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote one bad rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 6:02pm
Originally posted by Greyhounds_AMX Greyhounds_AMX wrote:

Originally posted by one bad rambler one bad rambler wrote:

I bought a summit cam years ago and i remember asking if it was ground by crane and they would`t tell me..I wish they made a broader selection for AMC...
 
If you combine the Edlebrock and Summit offerings it's a pretty cohesive group:
 
E2132  270/280  204/214  0.448/0.472  110/105
K8600  280/290  214/224  0.473/0.497  112/107
K8601  290/300  224/234  0.497/0.520  114/109
E7132  300/310  234/234  0.520/0.544  112/107
 
I just don't think that old HP lobe design is worth spending money on, and the lobe separations are a little wide as well. I'm also finding that many cam companies and independent performance engine builders favor less duration split for heads that flow as good as ours do. Anything from 0 to 4 degrees of duration difference has been recommended to me, but never 10 degrees. Brand C heads needed that I suppose, so everybody ended up getting it.
 
I have tried the 204/214 in a stock application and was satisfied..Tried the 224/234 and was very disappointed.I would like to try the 224/234 cut a little tighter
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tsanchez Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 7:12pm
Those cams are in my 1980 trw catalog, which became federal mogul I believe
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