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Early Small Bell 232 Questions

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purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2017 at 6:35pm
Originally posted by aPanzerIV aPanzerIV wrote:

Can the early 232's crank be used to stroke a 4.0 to 4.2L or is it too different?
I dont think so............the crank flange is different.......and the stroke isnt enough....
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aPanzerIV View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aPanzerIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2017 at 7:31pm
I bet the chassis isn't long enough for a 4.0/AW4/NP242 to begin with is it?

So I'm stuck with archaic 2wd auto swaps or a manual swap basically. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 232jav3sp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/21/2017 at 7:38pm
To keep things simple, rebuild the BW.  The only trans swap that will work with the early engine is to get an adapter from Moderndriveline to bolt a T5 from a 95-98 V6 Mustang in there.  Would need flywheel, clutch, bellhousing and fork from an early 199/232.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/22/2017 at 8:42am
The 232 crank is not enough to stroke a 4.0L out to 4.2L without serious boring:

BORE    +SIZE    DISPLACEMENT     LITRES
3.875    STOCK    247.658709375    4.059L
3.885    +0.01"    248.938597215    4.080L
3.895    +0.02"    250.221783735    4.101L
3.905    +0.03"    251.508268935    4.123L
3.915    +0.04"    252.798052815    4.144L
3.935    +0.06"    255.387516615    4.186L
3.955    +0.08"    257.990175135    4.229L

You would need rare or custom +0.080" pistons to match the displacement of a stock 258 or 4.2L. The comparative behavior is modified. A stock 258 is a torquey small bore fat stroke engine with a short ~6200ish redline. The 232 crank in a 4L crankcase results in a fat bore medium stroke recipe that is great for launches and offroading with a tall ~7000ish redline. Of course, if I wanted to make a high 8000RPM redline screamer of this engine type it would require the rare and antique 199 crank and knowing me I would spend forever on it retrofitting MPFI. A 199 stroker would be zippy but the power just isn't there for anything other than hypermiling.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/22/2017 at 11:39am
You can fit a 4.0L drivetrain in there. Would require some work to make it 4x4, but it's doable. Wait a minute... you said DJ-5, not DJ-7. The 5 is shorter and the rear driveshaft would be way to short for a 4x4. You could fit a 2WD in it though. Actually, I think I'd go with the 200 and trans you already have if you just want a little cruiser. It won't hurt the value of a DJ very much, if any, as long as the swap is well done, and it won't be a hard swap. 
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aPanzerIV Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/22/2017 at 12:27pm
I think I'll see if I can wrangle the 200+C4 in there for funsies and see about stockpiling parts for a 4x4/manual swap later.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/22/2017 at 1:22pm
Honestly it would make more sense to simply drop in a 4L or do a head/MPFI swap onto the 232. I've always wondered how that would behave. It's a smaller engine and a little more torquey than the 4L but it would breathe much better and have better stability.
1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31

1983 American Limited
Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/23/2017 at 2:56pm
Your only problem with 4x4 is you will be limited to a manual trans due to the length. That's why AMC made the CJ-5 frame 10" longer to create the CJ-7 -- so it would support an automatic with 4x4. 
Frank Swygert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/23/2017 at 5:02pm
Really? Last I checked we have yard Jeeps for days. It's the RWD models that have me scattered to the four winds when it comes to upgrades. Dropping a modified TF/AW4 into a Javelin is a fun project. Finding a compatible replacement transmission to shelve a Borg Warner unit from a compact antique dispatch Jeep? I'm stuck on the discovery portion of that.
1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31

1983 American Limited
Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Sep/23/2017 at 5:06pm
Most likely, the torque converter is not bad, but the diagnosis is an exaggeration caused by lack of auto trans know-how. (Fear of the unknown is how myths are made)

Volvo built a great reputation for durability while using this same auto. trans. in their cars.

The aluminum case AM Warner Gear auto trans is the easiest AM auto trans to learn DIY.

The Ford C-4 to AM Warner Gear 35 is actually a good comparison for size and complexity... much more dis, mis and wrong information pertaining to the AMC products though as usual...

Eg: Alto's lists Red Eagle frictions for it but under the Borg Warner T35 name... but it's true designer and manufacturer, Warner Gear Division, never actually named it as such...

Can you post a picture of the name tag on the side of the transmission? (don't clean the tag off with solvent -that will 'erase' the printed info)


Edited by amcenthusiast - Sep/23/2017 at 5:10pm
443 XRV8 Gremlin YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=2DmFOKRuzUc
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
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