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early American -- engine thrust bushing! |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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Posted: Jul/17/2018 at 12:14am |
OK maybe i'm just easily amused, but this is really interesting to me -- in 1965 AMC added a *thrust bushing* to the 195.6 OHV --aluminum-- engine. which is really interesting, because all four of my motor mounts are torn, from shear, fore/aft motion. (since the 58..63 american rear engine mounts are unobtainable, i modified my bell to accept the Anchor 2150 type cushions, which have even less lateral thrust ability than the "correct" ones (which didn't either). i bought some generic soft poly bushings from Energy Suspension to work into replacements for the Anchors but may not "get a round to it" right now, i'll stick in my last four 2150's. but i worked out a simple thrust-bushing system that will take thrust off th bell and apply it to the rear crossmember.) |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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AMC did a lot of little experiments in the 63, 64, 65 americans with the last of the 195.6's. if you run one of those motors it's worth going through those TSMs very carefully to pick up on the fixes: the critical head-cooling issue (three-spigot water pump), PCV system/non-vented oil filler cap; thrust bushing, ....
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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Maybe they were experimenting with more compliant engine mounts to make the 195.6 feel as smooth as the new 232, and those softer mounts created too much longitudinal shifting of the engine and so required this thrust mount.
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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That's a good theory! I've had plenty of the 61-63 Americans over the years. While I've seen my share of separated motor mounts, they were all 30+ years old and more were separated due to lifting the engine or not having the fronts fully out of the engine (the front mounting edge is slotted, but also has a retainer bolted on top!) when removing it from the bottom. I haven't replaced those mounts since the early 90s, when they were still available. Guess they have dried up now. Luckily they are just flat "puck" type mounts up front, easy to adapt a number of "universal" type mounts to. Just need to be about an inch thick with a single 3/8" or so stud in top. Anything over 1/4" (even a 5/16") would be fine. The crossmember can be drilled for a different pattern for the base if necessary. The bell housing (rear) mounts are different for the manual trannys, just flipped upside down front mounts for the autos.
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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my motor mounts are all dead now, 3? 4? years old, but they're cheap aftermarket Anchor brand mounts so i'm not surprised. i've worked out i think a thrust system between trans bell and rear x-member. i'll post pics and see how that goes.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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here are three different-year blocks with and without provision for thrust. some apparently later blocks have bosses with threaded holes and often studs in place to accept the thrust bushing bracket. my "63" engine has them, and i think i asked half-heartedly on this forum what they might be, years ago.
for whatever reason AMC seems to have done a little flurry of improvements and changes to the 195.6 in the last year or two of its existence. some are clearly inexpensive life-extenders (the 199/232 certainly in the works) and some like this less obvious. my "1963" engine i call that because it originally came out of my '63 American. but it was a commercial rebuild to begin with, then i "freshened" it (poorly), did a full teardown/rebuild (what i then though was a decent job, now i know not so great), and most recently, the pro build by Pete Fleming to exacting standards. but the point is, i don't really know what year the engine was made. it does have the cam-journal top-end lubrication metering so its not "old". 1965 BLOCK WITH THRUST MOUNT BRACKET PROVISION (1/2-13 tapped bosses each side of the oil pump mount area) "1963" BLOCK, in the car, harder to see here, but studs (NF threads) in holes. "it came that way" i never pulled them out. see comment; many be later block, unknown. 1958 BLOCK. i bought this off ePay close to 10 years ago, a commercial rebuild "short block". it was stated to be 1958, came directly from an engine-rebuilders old stock, so likely to be the correct age. it does NOT have top-end timed-oil. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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the thrust business applies only to the 195.6 OHV 10 series cars. specifically not the americans. thrust is applied to the front cross member (80 series are v8s, so...)
all torque-tube AMCs as far as i know have thrust bushings on the rear crossmember, between the x-member or x-member mount and the "frame" sill. few people know of them, i found them the hard way tracking down noise and vibration in my old '63 classic wagon. (i made replacement inserts by "turning down" generic red shock bushings on a drill press and pressing them into the old metal.) maybe the rear x-member thrust bushings were deleted? or found to be inadequate? did the aluminum engine induce weird problems? i have a 1963 factory parts catalog, i've looked in various sections but i can't figure out which group the rear crossmember and components are in. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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The left front corner of the engine block should have the day/date engine build code stamped in (just below the head). That started in 1958 I believe. Farna will know for sure. My 62 Classic has a 1963 195.6 (cast iron) engine and it does have threaded bosses for the thrust bracket you mention. I believe a former 1962 Classic wagon did have the thrust bracket you showed in the diagram above. I have three other 195.6's here that I can check if you need more examples. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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i forgot that. i'll check all three in daylight tomorrow. thanks. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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The "Engine Day Build Code" started in the 1960 model year. It actually started at the engine plant in 1959, I believe (but can't confirm) in January 1959. Most changes at the engine plant were calendar and not model year, with some exceptions. Tom, those bosses are actually the engine mount bosses for 63-64 Classics, not just the thrust rod bosses. For 61-62 models they may be just for the thrust rod though. The thrust rod was only used on 61 and 62 aluminum sixes, not used on iron block carss. Having a full set of TSMs has it's advantages! For 63 thrust arms were added to the trans crossmember, and used on all models due to the rubber mounts on the ends of the trans CM. Don't know why the engineers felt that the AL blocks needed a thrust rod... maybe the engine mounts are softer? I'd think the AL engine might run smoother with hydraulic lifters though. Don't see how it could be concerns with block strength -- the trans just hangs from the bell on the 61-62 models with no support, even the heavy OD and (iron only!) auto. Plus the thrust rod bolts to the block. The bracket won't fit on an iron block either. The oil pump is higher up on the AL block, the pump on the iron block would be in the middle of the thrust rod bracket. The 58 block doesn't have the bosses for the CM engine mounts, of course. So you can use a 63-65 engine in a 58 (pre 63 Classic... pre 64 American) but can't use an earlier engine in a later car ...unless you weld in brackets for the front CM and bell CM and use the four mount system. There's always a way to make something fit, just not really practical. I'd put in a later 232/258 first...
Edited by farna - Jul/24/2018 at 5:44am |
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Frank Swygert
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