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driveshaft issues, Mustang rear |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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You are using a heim joint on the front chassis mount, right? That's going to transmit a lot of vibration and noise, so it wouldn't be very suitable for a street car, especially an enclosed car. Might be enough wind/road/etc. noise on the open roadster that you don't hear anything, just some vibration. A strut rod bushing would be perfect for the front, I think.
I'm thinking that adapting what you have to a Classic would be supper easy. Weld a bracket under the existing trans crossmember and keep the heim. Maybe weld the bracket to the rear edge of the crossmember so it's further up and back closer to the u-joint pivot. The rubber mounted crossmember would keep vibration and noise to a minimum. A bracket could be made to use a strut rod end though. At worst it would have to use a half-n-half (poly/rubber) strut bushing if there is doubt about the rubber holding up pushing the car. I don't think that's an issue at all -- the force of hitting a pothole is more than most cars would put on the rear axle. Edited by farna - May/28/2016 at 9:36am |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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One more thing -- the panhard rod bracket could have been a 1/4" steel plate between the rear cover and axle housing, extending to one side as far as you could/wanted, then braced against the axle. That would mean a bit shorter panhard rod though. I know the rod needs to be as long as practical, but if the stiffer the rear suspension the less length you need as it won't bounce much. Rod just needs to be parallel with the axle at normal ride height to minimize sideways movement. With the rear cover mount you could have devised a Watt's Linkage though. A sheet steel cover with a pivot made directly to it would be nice...
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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this is true, but noise control in this car is moot! i made no attempt at noise reduction. but this spider, unlike my last, the heim mounts in a plate that attaches to the spider. *that* could be insulated easily enough. but the wishbone is a loooong lever arm -- the forces at the front end of it are hugely reduced. or as you say, and i considered, a strut rod bushing set is perfect. it's larger overall diameter but that's not a big deal. the normal motion that must be accommodated is up and down and rotational. given the crazy length (70"!) the angular motion is almost nothing. and it would allow fine wheelbase (driveshaft length) adjustment too as the heim does. out back, i incorporated the factory Mustang 4-link brackets, which then required the heims, so that pinion angle and geometry adjustment works without stressing anything. it costs more but is vastly simpler. if you made brackets that were already at the correct angle they you could easily use rubber-lined bushings and isolate the noise at the source. the front heim i think is a good idea, since it give a huge chassis-roll range, far more than the car could possibly roll, but that means it never ever gets anything but fore/aft forces on it, even in a collision. it would adapt to 10/80 chassis cuz that's where the geometry came from in the first place! i really am surprised that rigid wishbone rears were not/are not more common. i think there's a misconception that it'll lower ground clearance, with the wishbone joint below the driveshaft. but if you consider that the driveshaft and wishbone move together you'll immediately see that they cannot possibly ever touch! so they can run as close as you can reliably construct (and allow for flex). an inch is plenty.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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i'm archiving this on my website...
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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Not only does the wishbone follow the driveshaft, but the oil pan is much lower than a joint below the driveshaft. Heims on the axle connections does make things easier, but wouldn't be hard to design around that. I'm liking the strut rod bushing idea even more, now that you agree it would be good! I like simple engineering solutions much better than complicated, and that's about as simple a solution as you can get. With rubber bushings it would have more than enough range, nearly as much as a heim, and no noise. I think I'd just angle the mounts on the axle so you still have some pinion angle adjustment. Could also mount under the axle like truck arms, then use shims to adjust angle. That would be the simplest method. Good alternative to my torque arms scheme, and would be much easier to install... just have to make a mount for the front.
This should still work well if the wishbone were up to a foot behind the u-joint (toward axle), but the closer to it the better. What do you think about this? I'm thinking a secondary crossmember that mounts just behind the u-joint might be easier than modifying the trans crossmember. |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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I went back and looked at your website at the first gen setup. Nothing wrong with it at all, and it's more what I'm thinking about a KISS setup. Shims are used to adjust pinion angles for leaf spring cars. The way you mounted the bars the same shims would be used. Cheap -- 2-8 degree available. You can be a degree off and not have an issue.
http://www.4wheelparts.com/Suspension/Leaf-Spring-Axle-Shim.aspx?catID=1&subCat=101&ptID=5502&pg=1 |
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Frank Swygert
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Red Devil
AMC Addicted Joined: Jul/10/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 1743 |
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Since the wishbone is handling fore-aft location and rotation and the panhard just side-to-side location, the wishbone front mount needs to be strong enough to handle full fore-aft loading and the wishbone needs enough section to resist bending moments from axle torque ( engine and braking).
Hope the main tubes of the wishbone have enough section to resist the bending and maintain good control. Compared to a typical truck arm or torque arm setup, they seem a bit small ... but maybe ok with the lighter car and smaller engine. Otherwise, a neat setup. Hope this helps, RD
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19686 |
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It wouldn't work well for a high powered car as Tom has built it, but would be great for a six cylinder cruiser or a light car with a bit of power. For you typical V-8 never enough power guys you need to make something beefier. I still think a strut rod bushing would work well, maybe with the half-n-half setup with poly to the rear (rear of the car... since the axle is pushing the car). The rod on the front end of the wishbone holding the bushing would have to be just long enough for the bushing and well braced behind, of course.
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Frank Swygert
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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thanks! that was exactly my thinking then -- shims. as it was, i somehow nailed it. the thing is, no car is *that* square, you need some way to adjust for squareness. and since the Mustang axle didn't have leaf pads, and *did* have those nice brackets, i went that route... though i coudl have welded up a "Y" plate to accept the wishbone. probably shoudl have, but the adjustability just seemed worth it. probably all added 8 lbs of unsprung mass... i also suspect that axle windup flexed the single tube a wee bit. 130 hp, only, so i wasn't worried about actually deforming it. but it seemed maybe springy, eg. accell/brake flexed it, let-off/release and it springs back. the struts will flatly eliminate that -- though only 24" out from the axle, 1000 ft/lbs torque at the axle reduces to 500 24" out, half on each tube, bending force, and that reduces as you go up the wishbone. so now it's stupid-stiff, at only marginal cost ($, mass). and it can probably say it will be the LAST suspension i hhave to make! this is the 3rd one... the first was a single leaf, for location, and air spring, and a torque link. that just sucked.
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7553 |
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absolutely. but all that means is to extend the "strut" to be two parallel tubes that meet much closer to the front joint. and triangulation would make it as strong as a forged truck arm. all that truck arms are is a split wishbone, with the front ends separated. a wishbone is simply a pair of truck arms extended long enough so that they share a single front joint (solving the body-roll problem). there's nothing inherently weak with a wishbone, nor inherently strong about truck arm. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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