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does not shut off

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matty 401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty 401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: does not shut off
    Posted: Jun/18/2017 at 6:18pm
i have a 1972 Matador with a 401 and a crane conversion  on the ing and a accel super coil  and now for some reason it does not want to shut off with the key any idea where i can start looking 
72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door
72 matador 304 grasshopper
68 Rogue 360

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2017 at 6:58pm
Assuming the ignition switch allows return to off, as I had my 73 ignition switch stick on once.

I would check how the ignition is wired up. You may have made a connection to turn on from fuse panel or a live feed, instead of the ignition switch.

I would with the solenoid S terminal disconnected, check the power connection at the ignition after a few rotations of start, on, off. To see if the power at the ignition does turn off with key. By checking the switch that way may release it being sticky or prove there may be a wire that is live like clock and brake from the fuse panel being sent to the ignition.

I would have wired up an automotive relay to control power to the ignition, using a tap from starter solenoid's I terminal, which should work just fine to activate the relay. Then a simple connection to the battery side of the starter solenoid to feed the relay output to the ignition. This way the 10 amp draw won't interfere with any other fuses and loads on your wiring. Very simple and should not cut or make mods to wiring. Just eye terminals of appropriate size and a nut for mounting the switched input to the relay at the I terminal. I don't think you are using the I terminal for ignition any way since using a box.

71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote addic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2017 at 8:17pm
I'm having the same issue with a 69 amx I just got running again ,that has a msd ignition,
   You have to put a diode that comes with the ignition on the orange wire from alt. otherwise it keeps feeding power to msd box ,but yours is different brand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spiritdude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2017 at 8:58pm
matty401,
I don't have any experience with the Crane ignition setup, but it may behave like an MSD box. If this is true as addic says you will need to put a diode in between the field wire and the alternator.
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matty 401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty 401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/18/2017 at 9:49pm
the crane system has been in the car for a long time just started acting up the other day  and it is not all the time just when ever it feels like it  lol i have wired a kill switch in it  just a ground wire to the neg side of the coil push the button and it shuts off 
72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door
72 matador 304 grasshopper
68 Rogue 360

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FSJunkie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2017 at 2:16am
If you have verified that it's not Dieseling (running on compression without the ignition actually firing), and that the ignition itself isn't shutting off, then it could very well be the starter relay is sticking. There is a contact inside that wires the ignition coil directly to the batter while the starter is engaged. Sometimes that contact sticks on and will supply the ignition with power and keep the engine running even though the ignition switch is turned off. 

It also burns out the ignition points and eventually the coil.

Whacking the starter relay with the butt of a screwdriver usually does the trick. 
'66 Marlin: 327/T10/3.54 Twin Grip
'72 Wagoneer: 360/TH400/3.31
'73 Ambassador: 360/TF727/3.15
'77 Hornet: 232/TF904/2.73
'84 Eagle: 258/TF904/2.73
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matty 401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty 401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2017 at 8:02am
it is a new relay   just changed it out about 2 weeks ago i unplugged the i wire with it running and did nothing just kept running  and not dieseling can still throttle it   do it is very confusing  would using that kill button hurt anything ? 
72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door
72 matador 304 grasshopper
68 Rogue 360

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2017 at 8:41am
Originally posted by matty 401 matty 401 wrote:

it is a new relay   just changed it out about 2 weeks ago i unplugged the i wire with it running and did nothing just kept running  and not dieseling can still throttle it   do it is very confusing  would using that kill button hurt anything ? 


The I terminal probably is not used with having an ignition module. So removing it should not disable ignition, unless you customise the wiring to look stock. Then it may be used to deliver the ignition power to the coil.

I assume if a diode was used like from others stating to use one, it may have shorted out. Diodes work but given reverse bias current drain, after time and heat in environment, they end up breaking down at the unijunction, thus shorting and allowing current to flow in the reverse direction.

That is why i specifically gave info about adding a relay to control the ignition box using the I terminal, as the ignition feed should be carried over from the harness after the resistance wire. Unless that has been ripped out, then no ignition feed from the ignition switch is at the I terminal.

It is short and simple to do, and does not require a diode and is pretty much fail safe in keeping wiring intact and not taxing power elsewhere within the system.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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matty 401 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote matty 401 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2017 at 8:05pm
there was never a diode in the system not an msd ing either the crane unit has been in for years  it just does not want to shut off with the key  no wiring has been changed from install i bought a new ing switch  will try that tomorrow 
72 matador 401 the beast
79 concord 2 door
72 matador 304 grasshopper
68 Rogue 360

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304-dude View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jun/19/2017 at 8:20pm
Not sure, I will look into my wiring charts for 71, which will be similar to 72 outside of the transmission controlled switch and a few emissions changes.

I think there is an internal diode to the engine harness to isolate current feedback. Assuming to keep the alternator from self exciting. Maybe it Is built in to the regulator but as with any diode (if that is the case) the failure is a 50/50 short.

Though I am assuming nothing is modified to the wiring, so what I may find should point to why the module is failing to turn off.
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
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