TheAMCForum.com Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > The Garage > AMC V8 Engine Repair and Modifications
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - destroked 290 crank
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Click for TheAMCForum Rules / Click for PDF version of Forum Rules
Your donations help keep this valuable resource free and growing. Thank you.

destroked 290 crank

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
Author
Message
mixed up View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jun/16/2015
Location: Monroe mich
Status: Offline
Points: 2178
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mixed up Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 12:26am
amen to Boris thats my saying. you all talk rpm im in process of building a ford 347 witch is a 302 with a 351 clever crank this motor don't come alive till 6000 and will spin and make power till 8-9000 rpm the skirts of the piston come along way below the bore .
69 amx 290 auto
65 220 290 4spd
80 ford fairmont
Back to Top
amcenthusiast View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Jul/02/2012
Location: SW Atlanta GA
Status: Offline
Points: 1778
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote amcenthusiast Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 9:24am
Oh sure it's fun to talk turkey and dream about smashing a few more unsuspecting Chevy or Ford enthusiasts with a wild and crazy AMC combination... meanwhile... back to reality...

Get a copy of AMC's book named "Performance American Style".

For the price, the engineering advice is priceless and good engineering never goes out of style.

...I really shouldn't say anything more than that because I have no intention to insult or defraud the business reputation of any of my fellow hot rodders in the AMC world. (we are smarter and stronger when we work together as a team)

Seriously, get the book, read it -learn the truth 'straight from the horse's mouth' -as they say.

AMC's book is a great way for beginners to learn because it takes a 'bottom up' educational stance, beginning with the basics and ending with general concepts for building an 8000 rpm race engine.

For an excellent Internet article on crankshafts, I would also recommend EPI:

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/crankshaft_design_issues.htm

EPI's article on piston motion is also exceptional, nevertheless avoiding the many nuances of combustion which would plausibly triple the length of the article.

It all boils down to established scientific truths with world leaders each in their own respective fields of racing leading everyone else by their razor sharp cutting edge innovations; look to NHRA Top Fuel or Funny Car, NASCAR or Formula One race engine technology for cream-of-the-crop top shelf inspiration.

The #1 problem with the concept of making a destroked version of an otherwise stock 290 crank is that the angle drilled lubrication passageways to the rods will be moved to sides of the crank pins and lose their ability to lubricate the rod bearings correctly, thus defeating the entire purpose... assuming the purpose is not determine how long the engine will run without acceptable rod bearing lubrication provision... -D.T.


443 XRV8 Gremlin YouTube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=2DmFOKRuzUc
XRV8 Race Parts website: http://amcramblermarlin.1colony.com/
Back to Top
Boris Badanov View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/14/2013
Location: NH USA
Status: Online
Points: 4210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 11:30am
Buick and AMC are so "similar" that it's obvious AMC copied it.
And with that inherited the limitations.
Gremlin Dreams
Back to Top
amc67rogue View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Nov/05/2008
Location: Phx. AZ.
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amc67rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 11:44am
Interesting that the AMC came out in mid 66 , the new Buick engines came out in 67 ?? Was it copied or what are the odds ??? David Buick and Charles Nash knew each other way back.
Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
Back to Top
304-dude View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Sep/29/2008
Location: Central Illinoi
Status: Offline
Points: 9082
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 304-dude Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 12:16pm
I put a link to a NASCAR engine site a while back.

Not saying a short stroke 290 /304 is not worth doing, but there are some points that AMC blocks do better for longer strokes than short like the Chevy 302 block.

One the new NASCAR Chevy short block is more like the AMC block, than ever before. This was all brought on by Toyota's effort with bringing on their engines at the beginning of the rules change for small block design acceptance in NASCAR. Toyota has a lot of racing history with both short stroke design and longer stroke V8 racing blocks way before entering NASCAR, and talked with sanctioning bodies with their designs. They ended up pushing the big three into changing their designs to keep up with Toyota tech. Thus the big change to make dependable high rpm use on push rod engines.

I will search for the link, as it has a lot of engineering references, but you can plug in AMC block design specs and compare with what has been changed by Chevy and most NASCAR blocks.

If you want high RPM, you need torque to build up to it, and a gear set to match the operating requirements of choice.

So, without NOS, a turbo or super charger, the short stroke crank will be a slow dog until up in its power band.

Here the link...

http://www.enginelabs.com/features/editorials-opinions/how-toyota-and-nascar-helped-build-a-600ci-small-block-chevy/

http://www.epi-eng.com/piston_engine_technology/comparison_of_cup_to_f1.htm

Edited by 304-dude - Nov/16/2017 at 12:23pm
71 Javelin SST body
390 69 crank, 70 block & heads
NASCAR SB2 rods & pistons
78 Jeep TH400 w/ 2.76 Low
50/50 Ford-AMC Suspension
79 F150 rear & 8.8 axles
Ford Racing 3.25 gears & 9" /w Detroit locker
Back to Top
Boris Badanov View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Dec/14/2013
Location: NH USA
Status: Online
Points: 4210
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 6:44pm
The front timing cover and oil pump was used from 1961 on.
The Buick 215 aluminum V8 and 198 V6 both had it.

So the idea pre-dates the Gen 2 AMC V8 by 5 years.
Gremlin Dreams
Back to Top
pfordamx View Drop Down
AMC Apprentice
AMC Apprentice
Avatar

Joined: Sep/13/2010
Location: OKC
Status: Offline
Points: 173
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pfordamx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/16/2017 at 8:25pm
this was meant for a class we run that has no minimum weight under 320 cubes. so we could run a really light car with a small inch combo with enough bore to clear a decent size valve, yeah it would probably make peek hp at 8100 or 8200 rpm but with a jerico and some steep gearing shouldn't be an issue. as far as valve train stability our 427 amc has seen 7800 without issues. and it got a solid roller cam and shaft mounted harland sharp rockers. and obiviously some other quality components. but we would move the same setup over to this, obviously change cams but a high reving light weight clutch car sounds like tremendous fun to me. 
Back to Top
amc67rogue View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Nov/05/2008
Location: Phx. AZ.
Status: Offline
Points: 1578
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amc67rogue Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2017 at 12:11am
Originally posted by Boris Badanov Boris Badanov wrote:

The front timing cover and oil pump was used from 1961 on.
The Buick 215 aluminum V8 and 198 V6 both had it.

So the idea pre-dates the Gen 2 AMC V8 by 5 years.
Forgot about the early mid 60s stuff.
Keith Coggins 67Rogue X code
Back to Top
jpnjim View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Nov/25/2007
Location: New England
Status: Offline
Points: 2752
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpnjim Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2017 at 8:33am
Originally posted by amc67rogue amc67rogue wrote:

Originally posted by Boris Badanov Boris Badanov wrote:

The front timing cover and oil pump was used from 1961 on.
The Buick 215 aluminum V8 and 198 V6 both had it.

So the idea pre-dates the Gen 2 AMC V8 by 5 years.
Forgot about the early mid 60s stuff.

I think there was a lot of back and forth with Buick & AMC V8's back then,

the 'newer' Buick's ended up using the same, wider bore spacing of the AMC,
instead of what the earlier engines had.

Though the wider bore spacing may just have been a Buick recycle from the old Nailhead engines.

Either way, AMC was the one who ended up with stronger blocks and forged cranks so we might have lost the battle of cubic inches to Buick, our engines can handle more power Star
71 P-code 4spd Javelin/AMX
some Jeeps and some Fords
Back to Top
SC397 View Drop Down
AMC Addicted
AMC Addicted
Avatar

Joined: Apr/30/2009
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 5479
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SC397 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Nov/17/2017 at 12:30pm
Originally posted by amc67rogue amc67rogue wrote:

Interesting that the AMC came out in mid 66 , the new Buick engines came out in 67 ?? Was it copied or what are the odds ??? David Buick and Charles Nash knew each other way back.


Both the buick and AMC timing covers were originally made at Dohler Jarvis in Toledo. I saw them hanging like trophys in the lobby way back in the day. DJ probably had as much to do with the design as either one of them.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1 3456>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2019 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 1.762 seconds.
All content of this site Copyright © 2018 TheAMCForum unless otherwise noted, all rights reserved.
PROBLEMS LOGGING IN or REGISTERING:
If you have problems logging in or registering, then please contact a Moderator or