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Compression test results

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purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/21/2017 at 4:33pm
Id say a valve job.     but, how many miles on it?  Reason I ask, is if its high miles and hasnt been rebuilt, the rings may leak after a valve job.  been there..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Buzzman72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/21/2017 at 4:49pm
Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

Id say a valve job.     but, how many miles on it?  Reason I ask, is if its high miles and hasn't been rebuilt, the rings may leak after a valve job.  been there..

Seen it happen many times.  If the rings are "weak," sealing up the top end causes it to take out the bottom end of the seal.  Since there's no GOOD way to change the rear main without pulling the engine [See? I really WAS paying attention in class, and I caught that part about the leaking rear main!], you may as well plan on pulling it down soon and doing it right.

I knew ONE friend who used a tube sock filled with sawdust to catch what a leaky rear main would've left on the ground... not gonna mention who it was, but he's a member here and the car was a V8 Pacer. [I know it was just a temporary measure; his work is usually spotless, as is his garage.]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rockAMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/21/2017 at 6:23pm
"Thinking it may be time to find a rebuilt 360 long block.  What do you all think?"

You will have to take the engine out to properly replace the rear main seal. That's cheap money, but having the heads rebuilt is not (around $300-$400 per head). I rebuilt my 304 myself, but had the heads and block done at a machine shop. A reconditioned 360 is an option, probably around $1,200-$1,500 without delivery. It should fit right in with no other changes. In my case, I live in Canada where rebuilt AMC motors are not so easy to come by. Also many people consider a 304 that needs rebuilding to have no resale value, so for me, selling it and getting a 360 did not make a lot of sense. Besides, rebuilding an engine yourself is not that hard and I enjoyed learning how to do it.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/21/2017 at 6:52pm
Personally I would pull the heads
and do a quick and dirty on the effected
seats and valves.

If you have dreams of a HP 304 then go for broke.

That's my 2C worth.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/22/2017 at 8:03am
Doing the heads can cause the rings to leak, but it shouldn't be any worse than when the heads were leaking... just might not be much or any better. Of course there will be blow-by through the crankcase if they leak real bad, but that's not usually the case. So you should be able to get another year or two out of the engine with rebuilding the heads. Helps spread costs out a bit if needed. If you have the time and budget may as well pull it and rebuild, or look for a 360 (or even another 304 if you prefer) to rebuild and drive this as is until ready to swap. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote one bad rambler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/22/2017 at 11:52am
Originally posted by Smitty52 Smitty52 wrote:

OK I did a leak down test and figure I might just live with it for now.  The good news is that there was hardly any leaks past the rings as the oil fill tube was quiet for each cylinder.  Cyl #! had the highest leakage as might be expected.  The rear main seal leaks a quart every 150 miles so my plan was to replace that.  If I can find a way to do that without pulling the engine then I will leave the heads alone for now.  However, if the engine has to come out then the head work is easy when it is on a stand.  On Cyl 8 I do not think I had it at TDC.  I pulled the valve covers off (and it looks super super clean) and rotated the engine until both rocker arms were free of tension before I tested a cylinder but 8 may have been a little off.  I will recheck just for my own peace of mind.

So, any tricks to replacing the rear seal without pulling the engine???

Closed throttle Open throttle Leak rate area
Cyl dry wet dry wet
1 110 122 105 118 25% E
2 120 125 140 145 15%
3 140 152 150 170 17% I
4 120 130 152 160 17% I
5 140 170 153 173 10%
6 125 150 135 147 15% I
7 130 160 153 175 18% I
8 125 165 170 180 20% E

You can see by the result`s all 8 cyl.`s went up wet (Rings) and 6 had valve leakage..plus a rear main seal leak (Pos. bearings)...But what does not make sense to me is 25% cyl 1 105lb compared to cyl 8 with 20% @ 170lb  That`s a 65lb loose at only 5% add`ll leakage
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Smitty52 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/22/2017 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by one bad rambler one bad rambler wrote:

Originally posted by Smitty52 Smitty52 wrote:

OK I did a leak down test and figure I might just live with it for now.  The good news is that there was hardly any leaks past the rings as the oil fill tube was quiet for each cylinder.  Cyl #! had the highest leakage as might be expected.  The rear main seal leaks a quart every 150 miles so my plan was to replace that.  If I can find a way to do that without pulling the engine then I will leave the heads alone for now.  However, if the engine has to come out then the head work is easy when it is on a stand.  On Cyl 8 I do not think I had it at TDC.  I pulled the valve covers off (and it looks super super clean) and rotated the engine until both rocker arms were free of tension before I tested a cylinder but 8 may have been a little off.  I will recheck just for my own peace of mind.

So, any tricks to replacing the rear seal without pulling the engine???

Closed throttle Open throttle Leak rate area
Cyl dry wet dry wet
1 110 122 105 118 25% E
2 120 125 140 145 15%
3 140 152 150 170 17% I
4 120 130 152 160 17% I
5 140 170 153 173 10%
6 125 150 135 147 15% I
7 130 160 153 175 18% I
8 125 165 170 180 20% E

You can see by the result`s all 8 cyl.`s went up wet (Rings) and 6 had valve leakage..plus a rear main seal leak (Pos. bearings)...But what does not make sense to me is 25% cyl 1 105lb compared to cyl 8 with 20% @ 170lb  That`s a 65lb loose at only 5% add`ll leakage


That is why I think #8 was an incorrect reading or that I did not have both valves fully seated.  I think I screwed up on #8.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boris Badanov Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/22/2017 at 8:00pm
There are a few dirty tricks to force a valve to seal
but these cars and engines are getting to rare to
chance it any more.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Red Devil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/22/2017 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by Smitty52 Smitty52 wrote:

So, any tricks to replacing the rear seal without pulling the engine???

TSM shows how to make an engine support that goes across the fenders, blocked up to clear, and bolts into the intake.   Then jack up the car and support it on good jack stands, unbolt the engine mounts and crossmember so you can pull it down far enough to clear the pan, remove the idler arm bolts to frame rail so you can move the steering linkage out of the way, drain oil and remove the pan, remove rear cap, use a small brass punch to tap the seal out from the block far enough to grab pliers and slide around and out, replace with new seal and reassemble. 

I've done it a couple times this way with good results and for me was easier than pulling the engine.   If you're good at pulling engines, makes it much easier to work on than from below. 

Hope this helps, RD 


Edited by Red Devil - Jan/22/2017 at 8:45pm
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purple72Gremlin View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/22/2017 at 8:44pm
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

Doing the heads can cause the rings to leak, but it shouldn't be any worse than when the heads were leaking... just might not be much or any better. Of course there will be blow-by through the crankcase if they leak real bad, but that's not usually the case. So you should be able to get another year or two out of the engine with rebuilding the heads. Helps spread costs out a bit if needed. If you have the time and budget may as well pull it and rebuild, or look for a 360 (or even another 304 if you prefer) to rebuild and drive this as is until ready to swap. 
Been my experience that they will leak quite a bit.   Ive put as little as 300 miles and the rings gave up.   So based on my past experiences, I wont do a valve job on a high mileage engine.  never had good luck.  but your mileage may vary.
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