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Clutch Noise Part II...

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Mopar_guy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Mopar_guy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/09/2020 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by mmaher94087 mmaher94087 wrote:

Is that a photo of your bearing retainer?  It's wrong, wrong, wrong.
Apparently you didn't read what he wrote. Ermm

"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mmaher94087 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/09/2020 at 7:16pm
Apparently I missed something.(??)  Aren't the AMC bearing retainers one diameter from one end to the other?
Mike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2020 at 7:10am
In the late 60s/early70s there was an AMC TSB related to supposed TOB noise- I have a copy of it. The problem wasn't the TOB. There was an issue with the input shaft/bearing on some T10s. The fix was to put a spring in the end of the crankshaft to put an axial load on the input shaft. No idea if this is your issue, but you seem to have tried everything else...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/13/2020 at 9:22am
That TSB has to be one of the absolute worst engineering solutions I've ever heard of.
The spring in contact with the rotating crankshaft and transmission main shaft would want the two to rotate together. All kinds of issues from shifting to the spring wanting to wind and unwind depending on acceleration or deceleration. And then are the wear points of a hard steel spring were it does not belong!
If the transmission front main shaft or bearing is making noise - take the transmission apart and fix it.
My Opinion.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Steve_P Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2020 at 6:59am
Agree. It's not something I would do, I was just mentioning it. The TSBs were generally hack fixes because AMC was paying for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PHAT69AMX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Jan/14/2020 at 4:09pm
Somewhere on here is a thread where a member made some new retainers from stock.
With pictures in the thread and some specs, maybe forum search could find that old thread with some info?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXrated Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2020 at 9:25am
Thought I would post a quick update to this issue.  I've had some other projects come up that "management" deemed to be more important...so I have just recently had time to work on the car again.

I tried a couple of suggestions above like painting the face of the TOB and pressing it against the pressure plate to make sure it was hitting squarely, and it was.  Also, mounted the pressure plate to the flywheel and measured the finger heights to make sure they were close and they were.  I also went ahead and installed a new pilot bearing in the end of the crank on the outside chance I had pressed the old one in a bit crooked--seemed unlikely, but it was a cheap change-out since I had everything apart.

I have been using Centerforce TOB's since I have a Centerforce clutch and that is what they recommend.  However, MoparGuy suggested I try a different brand on the outside chance I got into a bad shipment of the Centerforce bearings.  I had a new RAM bearing that came with my previous Borg&Beck style clutch so I tried it with the Centerforce diaphragm style using my test fixture and, while it did make some noise, it was not nearly as loud as it had been.  And, since I had the back of the bellhousing open, I figured I was probably hearing some normal noise anyway.

Based on that, I decided to put the transmission back in.  Now, I do not get the noise at idle (about 800rpm) but it does appear at 1000-1200 rpm and then stops at anything higher.  So, I must have some weird harmonic vibration occurring at 1000rpm that is causing the TOB to vibrate on the input shaft snout.  The RAM bearing is made a little differently and has a flatter bearing face than the Centerforce.  The ID is also about .002" larger.

At this point, I have no idea what to do with it and it seems pointless to keep taking it apart and putting it back together.  Since I am fairly certain everything is aligned and working like it should, I think I am just going to put the car back together and drive it this summer.  If it doesn't miraculously cure itself or get any worse...I'll take it back apart in the Fall and see if I am getting any wear patterns that might indicate a problem.  

Thanks
You can have my Hurst shifter when you pry it from my cold dead hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trader Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2020 at 10:45am
Car club buddy is having similar problems with his Mustang. Not only was the bell 0.0125" off center but the face of the bell when bolted up is 0.006" off parallel to the block at 6" diameter out from shaft center. 
He has been having noise issues for years, and the offset dowels did not fix the problem.
We now know why and he is currently searching for a new bell housing. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AMXrated Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2020 at 11:19am
Originally posted by Trader Trader wrote:

Car club buddy is having similar problems with his Mustang. Not only was the bell 0.0125" off center but the face of the bell when bolted up is 0.006" off parallel to the block at 6" diameter out from shaft center. 
He has been having noise issues for years, and the offset dowels did not fix the problem.
We now know why and he is currently searching for a new bell housing. 

Thanks for the suggestion--that was one of the first things I checked.

The bellhousing rear face is within .003" of parallel in the vertical and .002" in the the horizontal with the crank face--not sure I can get it much closer.  The bellhousing input shaft hole is concentric with the crank as well.  The flywheel turns true (both flat and concentric) to the block as well.  Also, the input shaft snout is perpendicular to to the transmission mounting face, but since I am getting the noise without the transmission in place, the issue is not transmission related anyway.

That being said, however...I am keeping my eye out for another bellhousing and flywheel.  If I can pick them up reasonably, I may try to change them out just to see what happens. They are the only things I haven't replaced at this point.
You can have my Hurst shifter when you pry it from my cold dead hand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mark09 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Mar/02/2020 at 1:08pm
I don't think anyone has asked before? What is the pressure rating of the pressure plate? Heavy rated 3200-3600 lbs. Can cause excessive wear on the thrust bearing ( #3 ) have you checked the crankshaft end play? 
Personally I have used 3200-3600 lbs. pressure  plate in my S/C for 38 years with 6 different motors with only having to reinforce the pedal push rod and belcrank (latter excessivly).
Last thought, if the 9 or is it 11? roller bearings behind the input, that the nose of the main shaft rides on are worn or if the nose of the main shaft is worn will allow the input to wobble! Just a thought, hope it works out
Mark
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