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Clutch/flywheel balancing 195.6 |
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cnagorka
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/02/2014 Location: Saint Albans, W Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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Posted: Apr/25/2017 at 8:30pm |
Hello all:
Long story short: I had the clutch disc replaced on my '60 Rambler (in the avatar), while the shop was at it they put in a rebuilt pressure plate assembly and machined the flywheel (along w/throwout bearing & bushing, a whole kit in other words.) Now it feels like there's driveline vibration that I didn't have before...it's strange, the engine seems to idle very smoothly but inside the car there's considerable vibration. Now: there just isn't that much in there, I saw the parts that went in, and I don't see how any of those parts would throw the balance off so badly. I will mention here that they were afraid to take the rear suspension apart because they were afraid of rusty bolts breaking off inside the body, so they pulled the engine out to do the job. Could something have happened to the harmonic balancer when they took the engine out? Or could something have been reassembled 90 degrees off or something? I'm looking for things to check before having it all taken apart again. CN |
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1961 Ambassador Custom, 1967 Ambassador 990, 1960 Rambler Six Super, '65 American 440
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pacerman
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jul/03/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 9057 |
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Check to see that the motor mounts are sound and that the bolts are torqued to spec. That's easy. If your harmonic balancer was not damaged before the engine pull there is little chance that they did something bad to it. And I don't think there is any way to install it out of position. Run the engine at various speeds and if you are driving the car make notes of where (speed, estimated rpm) the vibration is worse. Let the car coast out of gear at speed while the engine is left to idle to check for an engine vibration or drive train vibration. Check to see that the accessories are mounted securely. A loose generator or alternator or AC compressor if you have air, can create a vibration. Make sure the engine is firing on all cylinders too. Easy stuff first. Joe
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Happiness is making something out of nothing.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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if the harmonic balancer is original, or very old, they do fail, the rubber between them rots, and the outer part rotates relative to the inner, bolt-on part. not sure if you'd want to suspect it, as joe says, but it's easy to check: check timing with a timing light. the mark/notch is on the pulley half of the balancer, a sure sign that it's rotated is the timing mark is in some crazy place.
i wonder if they got the flywheel flat on the crank flange butt. there's an inspection cover on the bottom, you should be able to get it off without removing anything substantial. *maybe* the crossmember, just jack the trans body up a wee bit to take the load off, and take it out. the best way is with a dial guage, but if you dont have one, arrange to put some pointy piece of metal on the bell housing, like a strip of stiff sheet metal under a screw, so that it "points" at the flywheel flat, so you can see a tiny gap. rotate the engine slowly (a helper with a 3/4" socket on the crank nose, or screwdriver on the ring gear teeth (pull all the plugs to make that easy) and see that the gap doesnt change AT ALL. or, .002" or something less. if it wobbles, they got it assembled bad. check that all six clutch cover bolts are tight, and the thing is flat on the flywheel, with no funny business like hammer marks or dips or bends. does depressing the clutch change the vibration? i suppose they could have got the transmission not square to the bell, or got junk between bell and trans so the input shaft isn't square to the crank. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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cnagorka
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/02/2014 Location: Saint Albans, W Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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Thanks for the input guys; especially the tip about the flywheel runout. I'll check it over the weekend.
BTW I believe that pressing the clutch does not change the vibration. (I didn't check that specifically but if it did, I would have noticed). CN |
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1961 Ambassador Custom, 1967 Ambassador 990, 1960 Rambler Six Super, '65 American 440
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19676 |
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The first thing to come to mind is motor mounts. That engine uses four motor mounts -- two in front and two on bell housing. Make sure they are tight and not damaged. IIRC they are flat "puck" type, and can separate and be hard to spot.
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Frank Swygert
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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If all of the above doesn't help you might experiment with weights. Get a longer bolt with an extra nut or two in various positions holding the pressure plate to flywheel. If you can prove the flywheel is out then take it out for a re-balance.
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cnagorka
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/02/2014 Location: Saint Albans, W Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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FWIW I replaced the front motor mounts in 2015, so I know they're okay...the rear motor mounts are actually on the transmission itself and haven't been changed, and are not available new. Remember that the auto trans uses four of the puck-style motor mounts, the standard trans uses two pucks in front and a more complicated square style in back. Given that they didn't want to take things apart in back, it's possible that they loosened them and didn't tighten them back up correctly.
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1961 Ambassador Custom, 1967 Ambassador 990, 1960 Rambler Six Super, '65 American 440
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7544 |
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motor mounts dont have anything to do with creating vibration though. they can only isolate some/most of it from the chassis. an otherwise OK engine with bad mounts might be noisy inside, or a faint high-frequency vibration, but it won't cause shaking.
> the engine seems to idle very smoothly but inside the car there's considerable vibration. but maybe that's what you are experiencing? |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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cnagorka
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jan/02/2014 Location: Saint Albans, W Status: Offline Points: 200 |
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Not sure, it just seems so disproportionate from what I see in the engine compartment to what I observe inside. Around 50 mph in third seems to be a bad spot, but it's been my experience that lots of engines have certain points where there's more vibration than at other RPMs. By all means, however, I'm going to check everything for other possible causes of engine roughness. I will say that it sounds like the valves need to be adjusted as they're getting pretty clacky, even though I did that about 4,000 miles ago. But within that 4,000 miles was a trip to Colorado where the car got a workout as it hadn't had in decades.
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1961 Ambassador Custom, 1967 Ambassador 990, 1960 Rambler Six Super, '65 American 440
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redlineoryourmine
AMC Fan Joined: Apr/25/2017 Location: nebraska Status: Offline Points: 9 |
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u joint going bad?
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