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Charging wiring question |
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DC327
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/30/2016 Location: Huntington, NY Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Posted: Sep/14/2019 at 11:00am |
ok wiring gurus. Here's one for ya. 64 rambler American with a 76 304 in it. Have a 7429 alternator (motorola type) the regulator has 5 wires coming out of it, green, black, orange, and red and yellow. Red and yellow are separate, as the other three are bound together with tape. Looking at the pics of the regulators on the original post in this thread, I seem to have the first type in the pic of three (I think)... 2 male and 2 female in the rubber connector, 5 wires total... bolted to the inner fender next to the starter solenoid. After some investigation, I find the orange wire is the D+ to the regulator, the green is field, the black is obv. Ground. I need a + wire to go to the batt from the alt which would be red. Questions. What gauge is the charging wire from the alt to the batt/batt side of the solenoid, and where do the yellow and red regulator wires go to? Thanks for any help!!!!!
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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If that Rambler was originally a generator car, don't use the GENERATOR regulator! Use only the Motorola electronic regulator!
Oh, wait - a 76 would not have a Motorola alternator - it would be Delco. BUT - if someone put a Motorola alternator on it, what's the MODEL of the alternator? We need the actual model number - 8ALxxxxx or if earlier, A12NAMxxxx for example. The generator regulator has relays in it that won't play well with the alternator. Get a proper regulator from that time period to go with the alternator. The thing that clued me in to you trying to use a generator regulator - you mention D+.............. IF I recall, the Classic got alternators before it was standard in American - I'm pulling from a non-coffee memory. Guess I could go check my charts LOL
In any case, do not use a generator regulator! What is the MODEL of the alternator? Should have a tag with MODEL number. Motorola regulators for AMC only had FOUR wires, unless it's an R2-1 which was made to replace the TVR for AMC. The R2-1 has 5 wires, 2 of them yellow that go to the fender mounted charging system resistor, a black, green and red. All others have just FOUR wires - orange, yellow, green and black. There are no letters or + or - signs on the Motorola regulator. Again, unless someone changed things, a 76 engine has a Delco alternator (unless it's Jeep - could be Motorcraft, and some used Bosch) But again, don't even try to use the original generator metal box regulator on a Motorola alternator. |
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DC327
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/30/2016 Location: Huntington, NY Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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R2AM1 looks like the plug that I have. I'll disregard it then.
The alternator is a 7429 (nastra or comparable) only thing stamped on it is the date code of the rebuild. Tag is ripped off and only rivets remain. D+ was something the auto electric guy had told me. I crossed ref to the wiring diagram in that post and took a guess. It doesn't run so it's not a rush, just trying to get it to run prior to tearing apart and blasting and or sanding the body. If there is a set up for the 76 304, I'll use that. I'd like to find a basic harness diagram so at least I know what the basics are. FYI, by the parts cataloging, this alternator is for 71-75 258, 304, and 360 amc and jeep models.
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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OK, Now we've got a lot more info.
Jeep - that's fine and yes, the Motorola alternator will make it pretty easy in the end. REMAN - should have guessed that as they use totally different numbering than stock or new parts. Yeah, the literally RIP the tags off and literally rip the alternators apart when doing a reman on them. Knowing the YEAR the alternator is aimed at will help a ton. You need the 8RH2003 or similar regulator. You will HAVE to use a 71 or later style regulator, not the earlier R2xxx series as those are meant only for alternators with the red isolation diode on the back. Yours will not have that being for a 71 or later AMC/Jeep vehicle. So you need the FAR FAR easier to find 8RH series or similar. Those are everywhere - eBay, I likely even have some. Most of this will be easy - the green wire from the CORRECT regulator goes directly to the ALTERNATOR field - the brush connection. The black wire of the correct regulator goes to a GROUND spade on the alternator next to the green field wire. The yellow from the correct regulator goes to the ignition feed The orange from the correct regulator goes to the REG connection on the alternator AND to the dash ALT light. If your alternator does NOT have the two condensers, IGNORE them in this photo! That was an AMC thing as techs were blowing charging systems while disconnecting diagnostic equipment with the engine running. So ignore those. IF your alternator does NOT have the connection for the electric choke, IGNORE THAT, too. Yours may look like this - same thing but with no choke output and no condensers on it. Orange spade on upper left, battery lower left, green to insulated spade for brushes at top, black to the spade that is PART OF the plate over the brushes. |
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DC327
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/30/2016 Location: Huntington, NY Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Fantastic! Thanks for the info. What gauge wire should the red be to batt? I have another non amc 60's vehicle and the charge wire is almost as large as the battery cable. My harness is in pieces so I'll be using a push button starter to the solenoid, as my dash harness is in pieces. None of the wiring to that harness is hooked up anyway.
Thanks again. Every auto related forum should have a guy like you with all of the info!
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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LOL - thanks, but I figure I won't have ALL of the info until I'm dead..............
Anyway, I have done electric for some years. The wire from alternator to the battery (typically they use the starter solenoid as the junction block to tie the battery to all of the wiring that needs battery power) should have a fusible link wire. In other words, the wire coming from the alternator goes up toward the starter solenoid (I said "up" assuming the Ford style fender mounted solenoid/relay) and it turns into a fusible link - there's a sort of black molded part where the wire connects to the fusible link. That link is designed to burn out, melt away inside in the event of a "short", saving the rest of the wiring from being fried. So it's smart to not just run a home-run wire from alternator up to the battery connection but use something like a fusible link in line with that connection - and yes, the auto parts stores often carry them - or can get them. I bet you can even order them from Amazon, maybe some of the AMC vendors listed in our vendor section have them since AMC used them in everything for decades. Since you are going it from scratch, I'd shoot for a 10 gauge minimum - but if you may do some changing later, go 8 gauge. That way if you decide to change to a system putting out over 65 amps you are ready. 8 may be overkill for, say, a 55 or even 65 amp alternator, but it's best to make it larger now in case you ever make other changes later - like electronic fuel injection with an electric fuel pump, that sort of thing.
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DC327
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/30/2016 Location: Huntington, NY Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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Awesome. Thanks again. Yeah there's nothing there...so I'm starting from scratch. I looked for a schematic, but unf. The manual I ordered doesn't have it, and the car is a mix of two years. Thanks again!!!!!!!
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Heavy 488
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/27/2019 Location: In the Status: Offline Points: 3557 |
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Anything other than a factory manual is throwing away your lunch money.
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tomj
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/27/2010 Location: earth Status: Offline Points: 7555 |
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100% best money you'll spend on the car. you won't know why til you see one. |
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1960 Rambler Super two-door wagon, OHV auto
1961 Roadster American, 195.6 OHV, T5 http://www.ramblerLore.com |
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DC327
AMC Apprentice Joined: May/30/2016 Location: Huntington, NY Status: Offline Points: 75 |
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A factory schematic would help a ton. The reproduction book I have has almost everything, but I'm sure I'm missing things
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