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Carter BBD 2bbl replacement |
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Ricardo540
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/29/2014 Location: Ecuador Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Posted: Mar/10/2015 at 10:45am |
Hey everyone, I got a 79' Spirit DL 258 c.i. and Im looking forward to change the old carb because it has been giving me issues. Being honest, I dont know that much about carbs and I am looking for your advice on what carbs will fit my car (looking to improve it's performance) instead of the Carter BBD.
Also, are all 2bbl carbs universal sized? or how can I search for the exact measurements in order to buy one with the same measurements as the Carter. PS: I could not find this topic in the forum, so if there is already one with the answer to my question please send me a link to it. All feedback much appreciated |
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Freecat1
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/19/2008 Location: Atlanta. Status: Offline Points: 2342 |
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I don't have a answer to replace the carb. I did just rebuilt my BBD and it works perfectly now. For $20.00 you can maybe teach your self how a/this carb works. I do recommend a carb cleaning bucket kit from NAPA if they have them there. The worst thing that you can do is screw it up and then look for a replacement. But it' not so hard to do. The instructions are pretty clear with the exploited view included.
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FSJunkie
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/09/2011 Location: Flagstaff, AZ Status: Offline Points: 4742 |
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The BBD is fairly well matched in flow to the stock 258. A bigger carb won't get you much extra performance. You'll notice a little over 4000 RPM, but really there is no point in revving the long stroke 258 over 4000 RPM.
BBD's have a bad reputation, but they are not a bad carburetor by design. Their main issue is they are easy for a novice to screw up, and a screwed up carburetor runs crappy. It's not the carburetor's fault that the operator messed up. Frustrated operators blame the carburetor as a scapegoat and thus a false reputation is created. A lot of old carburetors are victims of false blame. Carburetors are really easy to understand but recent society seems to have a mental block against them. You don't have to understand them to make them work right. Just make sure they are clean, everything seals, no parts are missing, follow the instructions to a POINT and set everything to book specs. On a stock engine the factory specifications for the carburetor work really well. Set them there and don't mess with it. |
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1955 Packard
1966 Marlin 1972 Wagoneer 1973 Ambassador 1977 Hornet 1982 Concord D/L 1984 Eagle Limited |
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uncljohn
AMC Addicted Joined: Jan/03/2013 Location: Peoria AZ Status: Offline Points: 5394 |
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Actually I will go along with only about half of the previous post. The Carter BBD is by itself actually an excellent carburetor if not a bit complex. However it is about half the size at 193CFM that the engine can actually handle so a bigger carburetor will actually give quite a bit of an improvement in performance. I generally if doing a carburetor swap on the AMC I-6 go straight to the 400 CFM Carter AFB. A swap I am doing on the 232 I am building at the present. But that is not a solution either when the basic problem is that the mired of vacuum lines under the hood run the odds of being hooked up incorrectly by any definition and have been for years effectively screwing up the operation of the engine. If the vacuum lines are correctly routed and the smog system correctly adjusted the engine performs quite adequately if not slightly poopy. It is capable of mpg readings approaching 30mpg and at least holding steady legal freeway speeds in every state in the union if the hills are not too steep. They are rebuildable and the average rebuild kit instructions if carefully followed are complete enough to rebuild them with and Carter BBD owner's manuals are available as free down loads on the internet along with instructions in the AMC TSM's to get the job done.
As far as bolt on replacements, the problem will become one of getting transmission linkages to work correctly as there are no direct bolt on replacements. However that has to be dealt with when installing a 4bbl too. So I agree the carburetor is the general scapegoat, but it is rarely actually the problem. I hate to say it exactly this way but when someone says they do not know much about carburetors and then asks for information on installing different ones, that in itself is a recipe for disaster. It means it is time to start learning about how to deal with them so that what ever is wrong with the one that is on the car, can be corrected to run as it should. If it can be. Whole sale replacement is not a solution if the problem is not the carburetor itself. If you do not have a vacuum diagram for your car and you would like one, if I know if it is an automatic or standard transmission and it has an I-6 or a 4 cylinder engine I can post a vacuum diagram that can be used. Edited by uncljohn - Mar/11/2015 at 3:59am |
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70 390 5spd Donohue
74 Hornet In restoration 76 Hornet, 5.7L Mercury Marine Power 80 Fuel Injected I6 Spirit 74 232 I-6, 4bbl, 270HL Isky Cam |
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19692 |
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The Motorcraft 2100/2150 is a common swap for the AMC six with Jeep guys. The smaller ones seem to be great, and plentiful -- found on many Ford 289/302 V-8s and 300 sixes. Some of the larger V-8s used smaller carbs, especially in trucks, for enhanced low speed operation (more torque/throttle response, but run out of carb at higher speeds... where they weren't expected to operate anyway).
Lots of links to more info in this thread: http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f8/how-install-motorcraft-2100-2150-carb-replace-carter-rochester-1068648/ The "1.08" is usually preferred (that's the diameter of the venturii), but they come in sizes from 0.98 to 1.23. Sizes and where found: http://www.mustangtek.com/2100/ford2100.html CFM ratings: 0.98 190 1.01 240 1.02 245 1.08 287 1.14 300 1.21 351 1.23 356 1.33 424 So you can use any of them. I'd shy away from the 2-3 largest though. A large carb will lower throttle response. It will theoretically provide more power, but only at high rpm, and hurt power at low to medium rpm (start to cruising speed). A 350 cfm 2V is that largest I'd use on a mostly stock 232/258, and you will likely notice the low speed throttle response reduction, especially if you have a high axle ratio (2.87 or higher... smaller number). The 2150 is an improved version of the 2100. Not a lot of difference, but a different booster that improved fuel mixture some. From what I gather the 2150 only came in 1.08 and 1.21 sizes. Needs to be earlier than 83 from a car, as 83-86 used a feedback system. Trucks usually were delayed using electronics as they didn't have to meet as stringent a smog standard as cars. 2150/1.08 was used 73-83 on 250 sixes, 302 V-8s and 75-86 2.8L V-6 (V-6 in Bronco and Ranger trucks). The larger one was found on 73-82 351s and 77-79 400s in trucks/vans. Either size should be useable, the smaller one is better. |
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Frank Swygert
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carnuck
AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/31/2010 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 3942 |
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Since his isn't computer controlled, it's likely an issue with the screws through it being loose. If you can twist the carb body, it's too loose.Then crossing #1 and #6 plugwires at the cap can backfire the crud out of the jets. Coupled with a really good system cleaner and making sure the fuel filter has the 3rd line in the 12:00 position, this tends to cure most of the BBD issues on non-computer controlled ones.
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Ricardo540
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/29/2014 Location: Ecuador Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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John, its been years I know... and now after a myriad of problems I really understand what you said about getting into swapping carbs without knowing much about them... anyhow, reading this now with a better understanding is a relief. By any chance do you still have the vaccum diagram? it would be handy, it is an standard transmission I-6.
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Ricardo540
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/29/2014 Location: Ecuador Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Thank you to everyone else that shed light onto this matter! Sorry for not answering on time.
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vinny
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jan/05/2012 Location: Calgary Status: Offline Points: 2837 |
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I don't know if you'll get a reply from uncljohn because to my knowledge he hasn't been on here for quite some time now.
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Ricardo540
AMC Apprentice Joined: Sep/29/2014 Location: Ecuador Status: Offline Points: 35 |
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Ohh, Thank you for letting me know
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