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can't get a pedal |
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carnuck
AMC Addicted Joined: Mar/31/2010 Location: Seattle Status: Offline Points: 3942 |
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You can actually buy closed nuts that are for plugging lines at most parts stores. I sold a ton of them when working at NAPA and Oly brake supply.
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Got an Eagle?
http://forums.amceaglesden.com |
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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On hanging the caliper from a wire and gravity bleeding it, I got it wrong. This was actually in the Speedway Motors kit instructions which said to hang it with the bleeder parallel to the ground, not upside down. The bleeders on these Cadillac calipers are in a terrible position. They intersect the top of the bore at a 90 degree angle, so there's not much room for error. They can tilt up slightly, but not down and they are hidden behind the emergency cable bracket and spring so it's hard to get a wrench on it with the hose on the nipple. You can get a socket on it
Also, all of these kits I've looked at it for some reason mount the caliper behind the axle at about 11 o'clock so the bleeder points down about 10 degrees, so you have to unbolt and rotate them. I clamped the rear flex line and the pedal is higher and harder, so it is a problem with the rear. I found I was making some mistakes manually bleeding it, so I tried it again, plus cracking the line at the master seamed to improve things. Also, I had been measuring the pedal ratio by eyeballing it and came up with a 6.25 ratio. I finally removed the pedal and it's more like 5.5:1. Not enough, so I slotted the hole for 6.5 to 7:1. I was thinking a variable ratio would be a great idea and found there are a number of patents on it and that 2008 Toyota Tundra trucks actually have a variable ratio pedal. If you could vary it up to 8 or 9:1 it would be like mechanical power brakes. I'm putting it back together to try it except now one of the brand new Demon carbs is dumping gas all over. Good thing cars don't blow up like they do on TV!
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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Finally got it on the ground and drove a little on our little dirt road. It's maybe a little better than last year, but still very soft and long pedal.
I'm more convinced it's in the rear brakes. I readjusted the rear calipers emergency brake levers to where I have a little drag on the pads and that helped a little. The pedal is much higher and harder with the emergency brake on. Cadillac says to apply the parking brake 60 times after changing brake pads. I lost count but the pedal did improve slightly doing that. I would never recommend these calipers to anybody. One thing that bugs me is that from what I can read, the front brakes are plumbed to the front of a GM/vette/disc master cylinder. I have instructions for a Wilwood MC and it says to always plum the primary piston port (rear or first piston) to the biggest calipers which would be the front brakes. The GM MC seams backwards. Maybe I should bleed it again? What a pain with these calipers
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Lucas660
AMC Addicted Joined: Apr/16/2012 Location: Vic, Australia Status: Offline Points: 1344 |
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I think switching ports on the master cylinder would be a good experiment. I know my GM master is set up that way, but it is also made in Australia and on the wrong side of the car!
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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I finally got to drive it today and it's not bad. Spent some time bedding in the pads. It will just lightly lock the tires pretty evenly with the proportioning valve screwed all the way, so it should be getting 100% to the rear wheels. I kept trying to adjust the rear calipers to take out any play and it seams to make a difference. If you pull the brake all the way on the pedal does get harder, so it's still an issue.
I also made .125" shims for the front pads. The Granada rotor is about .100" thinner than the GM disc so the piston is out a little farther. I don't know why it would make a difference, but I have seen pads for those conversions with spacers tacked on the back. To me it's no different than the pad wearing, that amount, so I don't know why it made a difference but it does feel better and seams to have more initial bite. So for now, I think it's OK, but I want to try a manual Hornet or Jeep MC instead of the "backwards" Corvette MC and the Explorer rear discs and maybe power brakes over the winter. Boy, do these things have a lot of brake dive!
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4826 |
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Do you know what your front end alignment specs are? If you add more caster, you can reduce the amount of brake dive. Does it dive to one side all the time or is it random? I find it hard to believe that the rears are causing a brake dive.
I was doing some reading on your thread and see that you've been having problems with the rear Caddy calipers. I have them on the rear of my Javelin and yes they're a pain to get adjusted right but once they are, they work great. Just be sure to use your parking brake once in a while to keep them adjusted. I was wondering if you switched your brake line to the front of the master cylinder yet? That's where it should be. I'm using my stock master cylinder with the residual valve removed and it works great. The 1" bore on the GM is to small I think. Edited by Mopar_guy - Aug/02/2014 at 8:20am |
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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Mopar Guy,
It dives under heavy braking pretty evenly and doesn't pull or dive to one side. I haven't had it aligned in a long time, but it steers straight, doesn't wonder and tire wear is OK. I cranked the caster out as far as it will go, but it has very little road feel and feels over boosted. I have a new CPP GN 500 series box (knockoff), but haven't installed it yet. I haven't switched the lines on the GM MC yet. I think I'm just going to go to a Hornet or Jeep master and will re-plumb it then. Thanks
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Mopar_guy
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Jun/07/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 4826 |
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So you're saying it nose dives? I took it as it dived to one side when braking. That sounds like the rears aren't getting enough volume then. Try a master with a bigger bore and if you use a disc/drum or drum/drum master cylinder, be sure to remove the residual check valve(s) first. My master has a 1 1/16" bore if I remember right. A 1" bore master had to much pedal travel. |
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"Hemilina" My 1973, 5.7 Hemi swapped Javelin |
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RamblinMan
AMC Addicted Joined: Sep/26/2007 Location: Port Charlotte Status: Offline Points: 1237 |
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You might keep playing with the pedal ratio. I see you have played with it a bit. Changing bores, changing to disk vs drum, and going from manual to power (or vice versa) effects the physics of the brake pedal. Most pedals have two mounting holes, one for power and one for manual. I have played around with this and made a big difference on several cars. I have even drilled a NEW hole for better geometry.
IIRC, the upper hole means more pedal travel but greater force, the lower hole tightens up up the pedal travel, but it exerts less force requiring more leg work. Combine this with different combos of MC bore size, and you can seriously tinker with how your pedal feels and the quality of your braking. |
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The Right Reverend of Blessed Acceleration
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Rogue401
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/26/2010 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 1280 |
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I have played with the ratio off and on. There is only one hole in the American pedal. Usually power brakes have about 4:1 and a larger bore for a firmer pedal. I may be wrong, but I think the power brake bracket and bell crank changes the ratio instead of another hole in the pedal. One thing I did do was weld a tab on the pedal to correct the geometry. The arc of the MC pushrod pedal pivot starts to slow travel towards the floor.
I have been working on my kids CJ jeep with manual brakes (now Power) and it has a 7:1 ratio and the American manual brakes was 5.5:1. I slotted the hole for 7:1.
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