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budget 258 rebuild |
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Pdok
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Apr/03/2011 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1025 |
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Yep, that's a fact. I used a needle nose vise grip to hold it up, tiny little plunger.
Also, start bleeding with the wheel farthest from the MC and work your way toward the front left wheel. It's absolutely possible to have a bad MC, without any external signs...I've been down that road. Need to check carefully all wheel cylinders, hoses at the wheels, etc. Bench bleed the MC if you can't get the system right, see if you can get it bubble free in a vise, if not you'll never get it bubble-free on the car.
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76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap.
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TheBirdman
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/25/2017 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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I didnt have time to closely look at the proportioning valve, but with my quick glance o couldnt see any levers or pins on it. What is this supposed to look like? Anyone got a picture?
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1983 Eagle Wagon
4.0 from 93 cherokee AW4, NP242, and EFI from 99 cherokee |
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Pdok
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Apr/03/2011 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1025 |
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Probably more accurately called the metering valve or combination valve, it's only on disc/drum combo cars, at least back in 1976...I don't have a TSM to ref for your year. The purpose of the valve is to delay full front disc pressure until the rear brake shoes make contact with the drums. You hold it out while bleeding the front brakes, and it only needs to move out 0.09 inches minimum.
On mine the valve stem is on the far end of the valve housing. It's tiny. Again, yours may vary, or not exist (drum/drum). There could be another reason you're not able to keep air out. |
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76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap.
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Only a metering valve or a combo valve has that "stem". There is a tool that looks like a small clip and that clip has a notch in it. You squeeze the sides of the clip together, slip it over the stem under the head of the stem and release it. It holds that stem out so you can bleed the system without interference from the metering valve portion of the combo valve, or a stand-alone metering valve.
This shows the cheaper type and a more sophisticated type - |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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The proportioning valve mounted near the rear axle on the frame rail will not have this because, well, it's a proportioning valve, not a metering valve. The metering valve holds up the application of the front brakes until the rear brakes build enough pressure to overcome the brake shoe return springs. So you can't bleed the fronts unless you hold the pin out. A proportioning valve won't interfere with bleeding. |
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billd
Moderator Group Forum Administrator Joined: Jun/27/2007 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 30894 |
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Eagle just has the pressure differential switch, which is not a valve at all......... now that shuttle in the body of the PDS can stick in the off-center position on some styles and cause the light to be on but it doesn't impact bleeding or braking at all. It's simply a shuttle that moves left or right, depending on the side that has LOST pressure due to a line failure - or......... bleeding! There is a tool you use on the Ford type - to prevent tripping the switch or having it break when bleeding - you remove the wire, unscrew the switch portion from the switch body, screw the tool in place and a pin on the end of the tool holds the shuttle from moving left or right while you bleed the brakes. When done you remove the tool, screw the plastic switch back into the brass body and plug the wire in and give the car back to the customer (after they pay you) Done so many hundreds of brake fixes over the years............ old memories are coming back (it's scary) This is another style -
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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Birdman -- I have a breather cap in the front hole, the rear hole I have the standard 4.0L PCV hose on. On the Renix 4.0L the front hole in the VC pulls from the air breather. The rear hole in the 4.0L VC should have a baffle under it, which keeps it from sucking oil and helps regulate air flow... along with that little tube. If you don't have a baffle, it really doesn't matter which hole you have the valve in and which the breather.
Eagles don't use a metering valve. The metering valve holds off the front brakes until 200 psi is in the braking system. It takes about that to overcome the springs in drum brakes. Theoretically, this meant all four wheels would brake at the same time. Metering valves were used only 5-6 years in the 70s. One of those "sounds good" ideas that practically makes so little difference it's not worth the effort. Hence you no longer see them used after 79-80 or so. Most 80s cars don't even use a proportioning valve -- late model Eagles don't, IIRC. If the front and rear brakes are sized correctly it's not needed. Some cars, like the Spirit and Eagle SX/4, used them through the end of production. Those are a lot lighter in the rear than the longer wheelbase cars and IIRC they use the valve instead of smaller brakes/wheel cylinders than their longer, heavier brethren. Cheaper to use the valve on them rather than smaller brakes. |
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Frank Swygert
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farna
Supporter of TheAMCForum Moderator Lost Dealership Project Joined: Jul/08/2007 Location: South Carolina Status: Offline Points: 19689 |
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The soggy brakes... Bleed them again! You might not have got quite all the air out. If that doesn't do it you either have a slightly loose connection or pin-hole somewhere that is sucking a little air, or the master cylinder may be going bad. Pump the brakes to get good pressure, then press as hard as you can on the pedal and hold for a good minute. Does it go down any at all while holding? If it does, the MC is starting to leak and needs to be replaced.
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Frank Swygert
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TheBirdman
AMC Apprentice Joined: Oct/25/2017 Location: Sioux Falls, SD Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Alright, I found the problem. I bled the brakes again, and I got a whole lot of brown crap and bubbles out of the rear brakes. Farna, youre right about 83 eagles not having a metering valve, I searched all over for it. After that, I jacked up the rear and manually adjusted the drums. Turns out last time I adjusted them, the rust was causing me to think they were starting to drag, and as a result the adjusters were a good 2 turns out from making contact. Now that most of the rust was worn off, I was able to get them tight, backed them off a little under a turn, and now the brakes work great. Sometimes they need a little double pump to get real tight, but I cleaned up the automatic adjusters so that should get better over time.
As for the crankcase ventilation, I cleaned out both 4.0 elbows, verified the check valve works in the rear elbow, cleaned the baffles under the elbows with carb cleaner, and connected the rear ccv to manifold vacuum. I dont quite have enough hose to connect the front vent to one of the old air injection ports on the factory air cleaner, but Ill finish that up today. The next main issue is something that I noticed when braking in reverse to set the automatic drum adjusters. When Im in reverse, and give it any reasonable amount of gas, its got a nasty shudder to it. Reverse with no throttle works fine and smooth, but any torque on it and it shakes like a crack addict. Im not sure yet, but Im thinking its a transmission problem. I will be cracking it open to change the filter and adjust the bands sometime, but I was thinking, why not put a shift kit in it while Im at it? The Transgo TF-2 should fit the tf998 nicely, being tf904 derived. Anyone got any thoughts on this? Is shuddering in reverse a sign of a loose reverse band?
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1983 Eagle Wagon
4.0 from 93 cherokee AW4, NP242, and EFI from 99 cherokee |
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Pdok
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Apr/03/2011 Location: Alabama Status: Offline Points: 1025 |
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Sounds like the band needs adjustment, which should be easy to troubleshoot. Front clutch slipping or servo, if memory serves some sort of line pressure issue(?), could also be it, but the easiest one to check is the band. It'll cost you a pan full of fluid to look see.
Transgo has never been a bad choice, and their stage 2 kits have worked well for me in every transmission I've used them in. Hey, if you're inside the transmission with the VB down, you should look for the typical leakage at the shift lever input shaft (on the top of the case). VBs do tend to wear out at that friction point, so I've seen. I had so much trouble finding a replacement VB in good condition, I just bought the Cheetah VB. If it's leaking, it's not easy to fix the seal in the trans case with the trans in the car, however. But, if you have nuisance leaks that seem to be coming from the pan, but aren't, chances are good it's coming from that input shaft. I'd hate to do any mods inside without checking. Maybe not a problem for yours, let's hope. Mine was leaking about a pint every 2 months, and I'd had enough. (47K original miles, go figure). Again, not exactly your year, but a 904 nonetheless. I understand these issues are common across the years.
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76 Grem X 258/904,4.0 head/MPFI, Comp X250H cam, Hughes springs, Clifford header, serpentine swap.
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