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budget 258 rebuild

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TheBirdman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2017 at 9:43pm
any tips for engine removal? any odd quirks of the process native to 258's?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote purple72Gremlin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2017 at 9:48pm
Not so much of the 258, but the front axle bolts to the engine mounts....
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2017 at 10:06pm
Originally posted by TheBirdman TheBirdman wrote:

any tips for engine removal? any odd quirks of the process native to 258's?


Take it out the bottom. Trust me, it's a lot EASIER. Maybe more "work" because you have to disconnect some steering and suspension, but those Eagles are CLOSE under the hood and you don't have a lot of room to work. 

Timing chain, oil pump are a must. Timing chains typically go about 80-90K on the 6s. Oh yeah, you can run them longer, but what a pain to do all this and then later take it apart again......

I've done a winning restoration on my own Eagle, and have worked on others (have another in my shop now) and IMO, I'll never ever pull an Eagle engine from the top ever again. 

Drop it out the bottom........



Put it in through the bottom........



The differential hangs from the engine mounts - you can have the EXHAUST all hooked up, bell housing bolted in place, the whole thing all one assembly, lower the car over it, lift the drive train up into place and screw on the cross member nuts, it's in, just like that. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote billd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2017 at 10:12pm
Front axle hangs from the engine mount area with a long bracket securing the pinion to keep it level/steady. 
The Eagle PAN and oil pump pickup is different - very. The pan is deeper but the sump not as "wide" or long as it has to clear more stuff. So the pickup is also longer. 

Otherwise the 258 is a 258. *(except that the Eagle being a later car had a water-heated aluminum intake with a ceramic heater in the bottom, so they didn't have the heavy cast iron intake and exhaust manifold that bolted to the intake after 1980)
You'll re-use the oil pump pickup even if you replace the pump. I believe there are two possible pumps, can't recall the differences right now. It's late and I'm still foggy from pneumonia drugs. 

If your car is a stick it will have a HYDRAULIC clutch setup - so be aware of that. If it's an automatic, the shifter is sort of "cheap" - it's the same as used in the Mustangs of that era. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2017 at 10:40pm
Boy I wish I had a lift or knew someone with one, I definitely would take it out the bottom. But, since Ive got a heated garage, a borrowed hoist, and a bunch of beer, im gonna have a few friends over and its gonna have to come out the top. The last time we removed an engine, it was a 454 olds from a toronado with all that funky FWD stuff, so if we figured that out, im sure we can get this. Im counting on there being a little more space than usual with the head off.
Where are some good places to bolt a chain onto this thing?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DaemonForce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/25/2017 at 11:34pm
Originally posted by TheBirdman TheBirdman wrote:

I appreciate the tips, but please dont assume that Im not up to the task just because Im new to your forum. That kind of condescending smugness is what drives people away from cars as a hobby.

It's not about the car. It is about fighting years of bad engineering changes that hit performance in the worst ways possible. It's about fighting years of poor service, moronic hack job repairs by owners that had no idea what they were doing or they did and just wanted to see this thing gone, creating a giant impossible mess for the next guy. Either you are that guy willing to put the time, money and effort into cleaning this up or you're an addition to the already painful chore.
It's about effecting a permanent repair to a temporary problem. I'm not questioning your skill with the Sunnen or what you're doing, I'm questioning what all has been done to the car that you have yet to discover. It's been over 4 years since my factory 258 blew up and I'm just starting to weed through the cobweb of bad OEM wires and hackjobs that warranted all new wires after building and swapping in a 4.7L L6. It's easier to get things running correctly when you don't have a mess.

I'm not saying you can't make it better but you have a lot of work to do considering the length of time this has been sitting. 20 Years of sitting is 20 years of rotting seals, bad joints and worse for other vital components. This same situation was bad enough to my Javelin but multiple people have tried to jump in and mess with it since they think it's a Mustang or Shelby. They didn't know what they were doing and now I'm out a 304 again. This is going to sit longer than the Eagle and that's been way too long already.
Originally posted by purple72Gremlin purple72Gremlin wrote:

I would definitely put a rear seal and timing chain and gears in. But it's alot of work to remove the engine out of an Eagle.

When you try to go cheap on something that has been sitting long enough to automatically need a full refresh and you don't go through it all, you're going to wake something that was holding everything together or destroy something with an implemented hackjob repair that you didn't know about. Surprise headaches aren't kind to people on budgets or tight time frames and the Eagle's engine is one of the worst to remove. So be aggressive about this and do it right the first time.
Originally posted by AMXRWB AMXRWB wrote:

We have an Eagle that we fixed the worn out items on.Today it is the go to car for our family year round.We have owned it about 20 years and has outlasted many new cars our other family members have had. 

This guy gets it. Embarrassed
1971 Javelin SST
American 304 2v | FMX | AM20-3.31

1983 American Limited
Jeep 4(.7)L S-MPFI | 1982 NWC T-5M (4.03/.76) | Dana30IFS/35-2.72
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/26/2017 at 7:28am
The emission controls are a PITA -- many remove them, but try to make what they have work. IF you are going to remove the emissions controls, get a good aftermarket or early model carb and distributor. The emissions calibrated distributor doesn't work as well, and the carb is worse when using the Nutter Bypass. All that does is set the carb in a mid range and freezes it there. Performance is okay, gas mileage is marginal -- but you don't have to buy another carb and it's overall better than a partial or non functioning emissions system. On the other hand, performance and mileage are as expected with a fully functioning emissions system. That can be hard to achieve today, as some of the parts are hard or impossible to come by.

If it were me, it would get an MC2100 (1.08 or smaller) or a Weber 32/36 (best for economy and power, still a bit larger than the stock 2V).  I'd go with the MC2100 over a Weber 38, unless you just want a brand new carb. I'd also stick an Isky 256 Supercam or 256/262 Supercam in it. No point not getting a better cam with the engine out.

As you noted, rebuild kits are inexpensive -- may as well get one and replace everything it has in it. Add the timing chain and oil pump just of peace of mind. I'd also have the bore checked. Long stroke engines like the 258 tend to wear at the bottom with little or no discernible wear at the top. May as well bore it to the next size if replacing pistons. I know all this adds to costs, but will be cheaper in the long run if you intend to keep the car any length of time. Skimp on the carb and easy to replace external items if you have to, but do the things that require engine out and apart now.
Frank Swygert
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TheBirdman View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TheBirdman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/26/2017 at 8:23am
Yeah, all the emissions stuff if coming out. half the vacuum lines were already unplugged when I got it, and the cat was already cut out. And there are no enforced emissions standards in SD. As for the card, Im sticking with the carter for now, but that it an easy change later. Ill keep an eye out for a 2100. I do have an old weber progressive from my vw dune buggy, but it has seen better days. I dont think Im going to have the funds to get it bored, but Ill take the engine apart and check the bore before I order pistons.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vinny Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/26/2017 at 9:08am
http://www.rockauto.com/RSS/vehiclefeeds.php?carcode=1180875&m=wc&l=en&html=true

I recently bought a tank for a Jeep and this is what Rockauto sent me as a list of wholesale close out parts. Some are for the 258. Maybe they have a wholesale closeout section for a specific vehicle?

I forgot about Northern auto parts. I usually buy my rebuild stuff from them.


Edited by vinny - Oct/26/2017 at 11:59am
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Gisulf View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gisulf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Oct/26/2017 at 3:56pm
Vinny, Rock Auto does have a code for each vehicle. Mouse over the vehicle you are interested in and look for the 'carcode', then substitute it for the carcode in the web address you listed.
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