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Blue smoke, shaking engine, oily plugs...help!!

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Nightmare2013 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nightmare2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/28/2013 at 11:54pm
Alright well the Tahoe kicked my bum so taking a break until tomorrow, my birthday! Gotta work the whole day, but next steps will pull the carb and intake and try to check the valve guides. Really not wanting to pull the head but may have to. Got limited resources at the moment.
But yes, all four spark plugs are oil fouled. It still retains the original intake, although after seeing that crappy valve cover gasket I am curious as to the other gaskets.
This occured roughly 40 miles after using that risolene, so I'm hoping that stuff didn't bust up my rings or pistons, as absurd as that may sounds.
How do I perform a compression check? I am willing to buy any tools to do so, but I have no space or connections to be able to run air here. Can't tow it till the Tahoe is up and running.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/28/2013 at 11:59pm
Compression test is a screw in gauge. If it tests fine (screw in, crank 10 seconds with the coil wire off) then you may have a blown powervalve in the carb or the hose was knocked off/cracked (common due to high heat), allowing massive quantities of fuel to dump in. 

Edited by carnuck - Apr/29/2013 at 12:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SKeown Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 12:03am
 
 
Originally posted by jcisworthy jcisworthy wrote:

Thought he said all plugs on drivers side had oil so I figured it was easy enough to pull the carb and look for oil. Oil directly into the ports would smoke like he said and could the foul plugs which would account for the running rough and shaking. 
 
 
 Yes, but after thinking about it further I would do the following. Unplug the coil wire then crank the motor over listening to the rythum, if you haven't noticed damage to one of the plugs and while cranking there isn't a noticable break in the rythum (like it speeds up at a certain interval) you can kind of discount a damaged piston. In your case get someone to listen that understands what to listen for. You'll need to replace the plugs for that, I would switch banks so the foulded plugs are on the side that was obviousely firing before. If that goes well, put a little muscle into all the intake bolts, clean the goop off the valve cover and reinstall with a new gasket. The last thing before restarting is to clean the oil off the plug wires, I would do that in the kitchen sink using hot water and dish washing detergent. You can do them one at a time if that's more comfortable regarding replacement. make sure they are completely dry before replacing, I would use compressed air or a hair drier for that. 
 
 It's hard to diagnose something like you've got over the internet, but I seriousely doubt you actually had more than one completely dead cylinders. I'll keep my fingers crossed and hope for the best. If one cylinder speeds up while doing the cranking test, then go ahead and perform a compression test to establish which one it is before proceeding with anything else. O'Reily loans compression testers with a deposit.
 
 SKeown  
 
 


Edited by SKeown - Apr/29/2013 at 12:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 2:00am
You need to purchase a gauge, something like this:
http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/detail/EQU1/3612.oap?pt=N0717
This is about $30.00 at O'Rielly's and is probably pretty good.  It has a rubber line and fitting you cajn screw into the spark plug hole and leave it there long enough to free up your hands and a button to release the reading so you can make a second one.
Once installed it is no more different then disconnection the high tension lead from your coil so the engine does not run and then crank it over a couple of turns and then see what is read.
There are nominal values specified pretty much for most motors and a generic statement that says if the readings very by more than "Some" percent from cylinder to cylinder there is probably a wear problem with the rings.
The engine is an air pump and the cylinders pump air, providing the seal is good. And what is the seal, a head gasket, the rings on the piston and the valves.
If the value is not correct what can you do to determine what is going on?
A head gasket will generally be one of two kinds of failures, going bad between two cylinders so what is going on with one is going on with the one next to it.  Or blows out between the cylinder and a water passage.  I have seen exhaust come out through a radiator cap or water gets into the oil and everything looks milky.  If you see something like that something has to come apart to verify it.
The other two, rings and valves.
If compression is low, squirt some motor oil through the spark plug hole into the piston.  And test again. If compression is better the oil probably helped worn rings to seal better so the rings are a problem.
If compression is not better, it is probably a valve.
Those are the basics.
if the pistons are broken you really can't tell anything using squirting oil. Still everything has to come apart to find out.
This is a basic tool that gives basic information and is all I have ever used or needed.
Good luck

Oh! What are nominal values?  On most general purpose engines something around 120# would be nominal with something around 90# indicating wear and something higher indicating probably normal.  Each engine will have a specific reference number .  For the most part it is not that important unless you are actually looking for it. For the most part what ever one cylinder reads, they all should be close to that if things are o.k.
I one built an engine that measure 240# at crank with a cam shaft.  Quite rare, but it had 13:1 compression.




Edited by uncljohn - Apr/29/2013 at 2:04am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carnuck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 2:14am
http://youtu.be/9U8iNb21arw
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scott Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:10pm
Nightmare, if the Risolene you put in the engine is the stuff that is the consistency of kerosene & comes in a quart can, that could be the source of your problems. It thins the oil a lot, & will let oil get past the valve guides & rings. Put new plugs in it, drain the oil Risolene mix, install a new oil filter, refill with a quality 10-30 oil & fire it up & see what happens. I'd probably add a bottle of zinc too.
 
I'd never put Risolene in any engine I cared about.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budryzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:34pm
X2 on the last THREE responses:) Over the web it is paramount that you attempt each test as described by a fellow forum member and please respond with the results. I had also asked for a vacuum test before ,but if you have already started pulling engine parts then please try to get a compression tester. It's only a o-ringed hose with a guage that you put in place of a spark plug. If you youtube it for any engine, it will show you how to do it.

The reason being.........   If compression is acurrate than we need to look at valve seals and oil supply/return issues:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote uncljohn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:35pm
Originally posted by scott scott wrote:

 I'd never put Risolene in any engine I cared about.

I guess I could say the same thing about 5W anything motor oil on a 100 degree day.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote budryzer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/29/2013 at 5:37pm
It is possible that the Risolene/Kerosine left in the oil sytem could free up sludge that then gets into the combustion chamber!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nightmare2013 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: Apr/30/2013 at 10:30pm
Alright got the Tahoe out of the way and found the wagoneer's problem gents! I have a collapsed lifter on cylinder one, on the intake side plus my rear oil passage was plugged up with goop. I siphoned out the goop and trying to convince the wife to buy new pushrods and lifters.
I actually used that really, really thick risolene stuff. I cannot speculate whether or not that was the cause of all this, but regardless I feel very relieved to know the problem now. I probably won't be singing the same tune if I get the thumbs up and have to yank everything off the top of the jeep.
Next question, given the fact that I have to yank the intake to get to the lifters, do I have to pull the distributor and retime it? That would suck.
Thank you everyone for all your help!
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