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Bendix disc brake issues still

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sweatlock View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sweatlock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2016 at 8:08pm
You said it migrated from RH caliper to the LH caliper, that sounds like crud to me. Especially if they were rusty. I don't think brake systems are designed so that the component closest to the MC, in this case, the LH caliper, comes on first when the brakes are applied. That would make for built-in grabby disc brakes between LH front & RH front, with no way to adjust it out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akimmet Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/01/2016 at 11:14pm
A caliper can easily rust up inside that quickly if there is old brake fluid still in the system.

Quote LF brake caliper is the first in the system so in if there's any slight pressure in the system it would be applied there. If the pressure isn't released heat starts to build and expansion causes more pressure, just a theory.

Hydraulics simply do not operate like this. Assuming no flow restrictions or check valves (from dirt and rust), any pressure applied is equally distributed to the entire system.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 70amcpwr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/02/2016 at 7:59am
Originally posted by akimmet akimmet wrote:

A caliper can easily rust up inside that quickly if there is old brake fluid still in the system.

Quote LF brake caliper is the first in the system so in if there's any slight pressure in the system it would be applied there. If the pressure isn't released heat starts to build and expansion causes more pressure, just a theory.

Hydraulics simply do not operate like this. Assuming no flow restrictions or check valves (from dirt and rust), any pressure applied is equally distributed to the entire system.


What I can say for certain (and there's not a lot I can) is once the brake starts to slightly drag, if I don't touch the brake peddle at all the drag gets worst. If I don't  stop (which it'll do without me applying pressure) and release the pressure @ the bleeder the continual movement will eventually make it lock up solid.

I think the comments of crud still in the caliper or the piston bore being the problem are most likely. Unfortunately I don't have the space to tie up tearing it apart until I have my spare parts here from our other house.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 2:04am
i think there's some over-thinking here -- the very *point* of hydraulic brake systems is that they inherently spread pressure equally throughout the system.

old lines and hoses can't simply be flushed because the crud in them is corrosion of those very components. unless you know for certain one upstream part got contaminated or some other special case. corroded lines not only make rust but have weak spots, and fail.

"shotgunning" parts is often a bad way to solve problems, but brake lines etc are an exception, because they are hard to diagnose, always eventually corrode (assume OEM type) and cost so little.

i can only speak from personal experience. our cars are now quite antique, and things fail in ways that the manufacturers never imagined, eg. flapping bits acting as one-way valves in hoses. i just junk old master cylinders, without looking at them. it's not worth saving pennies for all the hassle and work. 



Edited by tomj - May/03/2016 at 10:21am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote farna Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 6:01am
Well, the old Bendix four piston calipers are $100 each (http://www.partsgeek.com/9qsbwsr-american-motors-ambassador-brake-caliper.html?utm_source=shoppingcom&utm_medium=pf&utm_content=dc&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+ShoppingCom&fp=pp&utm_term=American+Motors+Brake+Caliper), but the point is still valid. They used to be much more, but someone started casting new cores.

One thing about the Bendix brakes -- the seal is on the piston and not the caliper. That causes the bore to wear rather than the piston, so they are more prone to leaks later -- though it takes a long time for them to wear. The newer models (Baer, Willwood, etc.) all have the seal in the main body so that the easy to replace piston will wear.

If you have ANY corrosion BEHIND the seal the seal will tighten and cause the piston to stick. I had that issue with motorcycle calipers. They are aluminum bodies and not cast iron, but results would be the same. I had one that the brakes would drag continually once applied and it was a slight bit of corrosion behind the seal. If they are dragging and causing a lot of heat the fluid in the caliper can expand slightly and cause them to get tighter. This is especially true if you are running silicon brake fluid, which expands more than regular fluid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 70amcpwr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 6:39am
Originally posted by farna farna wrote:

Well, the old Bendix four piston calipers are $100 each (http://www.partsgeek.com/9qsbwsr-american-motors-ambassador-brake-caliper.html?utm_source=shoppingcom&utm_medium=pf&utm_content=dc&utm_campaign=PartsGeek+ShoppingCom&fp=pp&utm_term=American+Motors+Brake+Caliper), but the point is still valid. They used to be much more, but someone started casting new cores.

One thing about the Bendix brakes -- the seal is on the piston and not the caliper. That causes the bore to wear rather than the piston, so they are more prone to leaks later -- though it takes a long time for them to wear. The newer models (Baer, Willwood, etc.) all have the seal in the main body so that the easy to replace piston will wear.

If you have ANY corrosion BEHIND the seal the seal will tighten and cause the piston to stick. I had that issue with motorcycle calipers. They are aluminum bodies and not cast iron, but results would be the same. I had one that the brakes would drag continually once applied and it was a slight bit of corrosion behind the seal. If they are dragging and causing a lot of heat the fluid in the caliper can expand slightly and cause them to get tighter. This is especially true if you are running silicon brake fluid, which expands more than regular fluid.


Your second to last sentence is my thought, caused either by the bore or remaining crud in the caliper.

I was totally unaware the calipers were available now for short(er) money. They were $200+ and weeks away last time I bought some. Is the valve under the hood on RH the lower firewall or the plastic plunger (couldn't think of the proper name) now available also?

Thanks to all for the input, but to some of the responses didn't read the entire post, everything in the system is new except the calipers, valve and pads.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 401MATCOUPE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 7:37am
Rick...you can get the Brake Warning Valve Repair kit from one of the Forum Members....but just go to his website.  I have bought many over the years and they work great.

https://www.musclecarresearch.com/valve-kit-wagner-amc-dist

You might have a combination of issues, like Frank is saying with stuff built up under the seal, but I can tell you that the pistons are also an issue.  They are Chrome Plated Steel and they do get pitted on the outside diameter, enough that the pitting can cause the piston to bind in the bore too.

Hope this helps you..


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 70amcpwr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 8:10am
The pistons were perfect, and I do mean perfect when I took them apart, installed all new seals. I used brake clean to clean the ports and should have followed through with compressed air but didn't, that's the only way crud could still be there. Thanks for the info on the kits BTW!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tomj Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 10:15am
hey, my reply above came out much bitc*ier than i ever intended, and i wanted to apologize before i edit it, since editing doesn't fix it for those who already read it. i know this stuff is tricky and hard to diagnose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 70amcpwr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May/03/2016 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by tomj tomj wrote:

hey, my reply above came out much bitc*ier than i ever intended, and i wanted to apologize before i edit it, since editing doesn't fix it for those who already read it. i know this stuff is tricky and hard to diagnose.



Funny thing is my wife thinks I only have a low retention span with what she says Smile.
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