Beehive springs

Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic

   Hello AMC Buddies.
I thought maybe some could benefit from my communication with Crane Cams Tech about using beehive springs from Comp Cams on Crane Cams Hyd Roller Cams.

Also any comments on using the Mopar Stainless valves from Manley let me know. they are longer. Intake .070 exhaust .080 I think that means longer pushrods will need to be determined my measurement. I have looked at videos on determining pushrod length. As well as valve height. Still gathering info Motor still in SC Rambler.  Feel free to give input on valves. Hope info from Crane Tech can be of benefit.   
Here it is below. Welcome any comments. Larry 

Hi Eric
Here are the specs of your Crane cam valve spring for AMC Hyd. Roller.
And also the specs of Comp Cam valve springs for AMC Hyd. Roller.
They look close, do you think that these Comp Cam beehive springs will work with your Hyd. Roller Cam.
I like your Hyd. Roller cam profiles better but would like to use the beehives.
Also could I use your Solid Rollers on your Hyd. Roller cam. I have heard some do interchange solids for Hyd.
I also will need to use Mopar 340 Valves no one makes 1.625 stainless valves exhaust for AMC.
The Mopar 340 2.020 intake and 1.625 exhaust are longer. 
AMC intake 4.900 exhaust 4.907 Mopar intake 4.970 exhaust 4.980.
Any input let me know  Thanks again Larry

Crane and Comp springs 
AMC Hyd. Roller                                       AMC Hyd. Roller
Crane Cams Dual                                     Comp Cams Beehive
Spring No. 99893                                     Spring No. 26056
Install Height     1.850                                        1.800
OD                 1.460                                        1.454
ID                 0.803                                        0.731
Coil Bind          1.080                                        1.100
Spring Rate          391                                          400
Max lift           0.710                                         0.650
1.900                112                                           120
1.850                130                                           140
1.800                149                                           160
1.750                167                                           180
1.700                186                                           200
1.650                205                                           220
1.600                223                                           240
1.550                242                                           260
1.500                261                                           280
1.450                279                                           300
1.400                298                                           320
1.350                318                                           340
1.300                338                                           360
1.250                358                                           380
1.200                380                                           400
1.150                404                                           420

Answer from Crane Cams Tech
Looks like the beehive Comp spring will work fine if you want to use it.  

You can use solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam with no problem. You will need to run the lash around .008 to .012 since they don't have any lash ramp like solid roller designs do. 

I don't know about the valves but if they help with installed height then I don't see any problem using them. 

Author	Message Topic Search Topic Options Post Reply Create New Topic Printable Version Translate Topic
Ramzilla Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jan/28/2019 Location: arizona Status: Offline Points: 354	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ramzilla Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Topic: Beehive springs Posted: Aug/20/2019 at 1:35pm
	Hello AMC Buddies. I thought maybe some could benefit from my communication with Crane Cams Tech about using beehive springs from Comp Cams on Crane Cams Hyd Roller Cams. Also any comments on using the Mopar Stainless valves from Manley let me know. they are longer. Intake .070 exhaust .080 I think that means longer pushrods will need to be determined my measurement. I have looked at videos on determining pushrod length. As well as valve height. Still gathering info Motor still in SC Rambler. Feel free to give input on valves. Hope info from Crane Tech can be of benefit. Here it is below. Welcome any comments. Larry Hi Eric Here are the specs of your Crane cam valve spring for AMC Hyd. Roller. And also the specs of Comp Cam valve springs for AMC Hyd. Roller. They look close, do you think that these Comp Cam beehive springs will work with your Hyd. Roller Cam. I like your Hyd. Roller cam profiles better but would like to use the beehives. Also could I use your Solid Rollers on your Hyd. Roller cam. I have heard some do interchange solids for Hyd. I also will need to use Mopar 340 Valves no one makes 1.625 stainless valves exhaust for AMC. The Mopar 340 2.020 intake and 1.625 exhaust are longer. AMC intake 4.900 exhaust 4.907 Mopar intake 4.970 exhaust 4.980. Any input let me know Thanks again Larry Crane and Comp springs AMC Hyd. Roller AMC Hyd. Roller Crane Cams Dual Comp Cams Beehive Spring No. 99893 Spring No. 26056 Install Height 1.850 1.800 OD 1.460 1.454 ID 0.803 0.731 Coil Bind 1.080 1.100 Spring Rate 391 400 Max lift 0.710 0.650 1.900 112 120 1.850 130 140 1.800 149 160 1.750 167 180 1.700 186 200 1.650 205 220 1.600 223 240 1.550 242 260 1.500 261 280 1.450 279 300 1.400 298 320 1.350 318 340 1.300 338 360 1.250 358 380 1.200 380 400 1.150 404 420 Answer from Crane Cams Tech Looks like the beehive Comp spring will work fine if you want to use it. You can use solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam with no problem. You will need to run the lash around .008 to .012 since they don't have any lash ramp like solid roller designs do. I don't know about the valves but if they help with installed height then I don't see any problem using them.
	SC Rambler

dbltrbl Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/06/2011 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 80	Post Options Post Reply Quote dbltrbl Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/21/2019 at 4:35am
	I'm using Comp 26056 springs (which should be the same as Lunati 1.445" bbc chevy spring #74820-16) I'm still using stock length valves which causes the install height to be too low, about 1.81" even with +050" keepers. I believe this and lift from HR232 cam used with solid lifters and 1.7 rocker (0.62 exhaust lift) caused 2 spring breakages on exhaust side. Installed 1.6 ratio rockers and hoping the springs will last better now. Kris

Ramzilla Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jan/28/2019 Location: arizona Status: Offline Points: 354	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ramzilla Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/21/2019 at 7:16pm
	Kris Thanks for info That is the cam HR232 with solids rollers I was considering using but with 1.6 rockers. Looks like your lift about .606 at 1.204 was still not coil bind 26056 is .650 at 1.100 coil bind max lift. Let me know what is the outcome of 1.6 rockers. Can our installed height be maybe 1.850. that is what the Crane Cams 99893 states. Have not built a motor since the 1960s. A lot of things have changed since then you could buy parts install them and they just worked. My motor still in car but all this info will surely help when I get started on it. I will only get one chance so I need to do it right, Car will not be raced only run on the street. Larry
	SC Rambler

dbltrbl Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/06/2011 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 80	Post Options Post Reply Quote dbltrbl Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/22/2019 at 12:39am
	Just check the installed height when installing the valves, im sure the those springs are fine if installed properly. I put those on without removing heads so i didnt have option to do much changes. They install fine with stock umbrella valve seals but if you are planning new valves, put some with chevy size stems?

Ramzilla Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Nut Joined: Jan/28/2019 Location: arizona Status: Offline Points: 354	Post Options Post Reply Quote Ramzilla Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/22/2019 at 3:17pm
	Looked again at comp cams Hyd roller that those beehive go with. And the max lift on their cams .552. Maybe I should use Crane HR-224 max lift .563 instead of HR232 .584 lift. How does yours run on the street. What pistons and rods are you using and have you replaced your valves. I like the idea of not having to cut valve spring seats and seal area and using Umbrella seals. Saving all parts just incase the next person wants to return it to stock. But I think I want to replace valves with stainless valves not sure if the stock valves could hold together with added cam and springs. My motor is still stock factory 20,000 miles. Not sure what I will find when I dig into it. Plan on removing rear axle and springs to cleanup and paint after weather cools down. Before removing motor. Thanks for input.
	SC Rambler

dbltrbl Members Profile Send Private Message Find Members Posts Add to Buddy List AMC Apprentice Joined: Jul/06/2011 Location: Finland Status: Offline Points: 80	Post Options Post Reply Quote dbltrbl Report Post Thanks(0) Quote Reply Posted: Aug/23/2019 at 7:30am
	It runs ok but would run better if i had suitable converter instead of stock BW 13" and something else than 2:87 gears but i drive highway speeds alot so i dont want to change gears. Cam starts pulling well after 3000 rpm, highway speed at that point is about 75 mph. It drives fine from 1000 rpm up but is not really designed for that. Im using rb4 intake, it has large ports, im thinking swapping that to airgap would bring torque in earlier but as im using E85 i dont want to loose manifold heating, maybe i should try stock cast iron manifold just to see how it works. Im using stock valves with umbrellas, long 6.125 rods with short pistons and 12.4 comp ratio. I would recommend using new valves anyway, last thing you want is to drop a valve in overhauled engine.