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Are these decent lifters? |
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Slate
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/28/2012 Location: Airyzona Status: Offline Points: 2784 |
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Great, NDA. You went with the smaller spec lifter for your own personal reasons. If a smaller flat tappet lifter does what you wanted and expected from 3 engines( amusing that you went through 3 engines with those trouble free .903 's, but I don't have personal experience using them ).
I do have experience with the proper lifter on 2 360's ( both running still ) and rockers with excessive clearance on a 258. The 6, had no oil pressure issues. Of, course, being stick it rarely, if ever revved over 3500. hot idle never dipped below 20 psi. Sixes generally don't have oil delivery or return issues. The cam and main bearings were within specs and I ran an oil cooler, which apparently worked quite well. One 360 runs the Comp Cams 280 hydraulic and was put in around 2000. I didn't install it. Since I didn't I can only go by their current specs which say the lifters are.904" The other 360 is dead stock with the exception of the Melling cam. The cam specs aren't committed to memory. When I can get to where the box is I can get all that info. I do recall it's very mild, perhaps a 260, if that. Enough comparing sticks, though. I'm a modest guy. When the stock diameter lifters are available, at comparable prices, it only is reasonable to expend the effort to get and use them. That's my advice. Feel free to extol the virtues of using the wrong ones. Steve |
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Sonic Silver
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/23/2011 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 7949 |
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nda racer
AMC Addicted Joined: Nov/28/2009 Location: Ohio Status: Offline Points: 2591 |
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Exactly! It seems they should have blown up, since they're the wrong part. I've done all kinds of stuff wrong in my playing days. After reading message forums and seeing the troubles so many have doing it right, I'm scared to even play anymore. |
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Sonic Silver
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/23/2011 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 7949 |
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From what I have been able to find out, there are NO cam companies that make their own lifters. They are all bought and repackaged by the cam companies.
There are 3 lifter manufacturers in the U.S. that I have found: Johnson Tappet, Hylift-Johnson ( a division of Topline Industries), and Delphi. The major off-shore supplier is Eaton, with manufacturing facilities in India, Turkey, Mexico, and China. Eaton makes lifters for Federal Mogul, Melling, Sealed Power, and Engine Tech. Hylift-Johnson makes house brand lifters for Summit and Jeg's, and also Rhoads Lifters. Comp Cams once used Delphi for some applications, but I understand that they had changed sources. The questions that I would like answered is if there is a .904 lifter being made, and where is it made? Someone on the forum said that Johnson spec'd less, and I don't believe that Delphi makes one. That leaves Hylift-Johnson, and the off-shore manufacturing. At least one cam company that I talked to says to shy away from the Mexican sources. Also, the plant manager of Hylift-Johnson was quoted as saying in 2006 that the first wear problems showed up because Standadyne Manufacturing was using inferior off-shore raw materials, and it was not due to a lack of zinc issue. As I said earlier, I used Bullet .903 Mopar lifters with no issues. I am not sure who made them, and I don't really care because they work fine. Edited by Sonic Silver - Aug/21/2014 at 5:08pm |
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Slate
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/28/2012 Location: Airyzona Status: Offline Points: 2784 |
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Come on NDA, I didn't say they should have own up because you used .903's.
Sonic I'm sure you used the smaller size and nothing major happened. But .904's are what helps keep the clearance within an acceptable range to maintain not only decent overall oil pressure as measured by the sending unit to the gauge, but to ensure that oil flows to the bearings and have good chance of being at a decent localized pressure where it is most needed. Thus the fallout for a clearance range for lifters to bore and bearings to crank and cam. I'm pretty certain those facts are real basic to you and to NDA. I know it too. If you knowingly pick smaller lifters in a trade off for some other benefit or necessity, it is an informed choice to pick a substitute part to the optimally correct one because of availability, materials, design (roller), or cost. It means you accept that you are taking a chance that overall reliability is reduced ( if you haven't measured and clearance might be at or beyond stock limits. No problem. The problem is in recommending or implying that it is a natural, ok everyday thing to do for others whom may not measure or consider and balance the trade offs that are part of the choice. For most people it is worthwhile to check around and get the stock size lifter made by a reputable manufacturer. Steve |
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Sonic Silver
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/23/2011 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 7949 |
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Slate
AMC Addicted Joined: Feb/28/2012 Location: Airyzona Status: Offline Points: 2784 |
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I will attempt this again.
Several instances have been mentioned, where .904's are available. Do the legwork. Steve |
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Sonic Silver
Supporter of TheAMCForum Joined: Nov/23/2011 Location: East Tennessee Status: Offline Points: 7949 |
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Do they make a .904? They make lifters for Federal Mogul, Sealed Power, Melling , etc. As the original poster showed a catalog page from Jeg's that showed the Federal Mogul or whoever it was that he bought, it showed the AMC lifter and Mopar the same part number. This makes me think that since Eaton makes those lifters, that they don't make a true .904 either. I have tried to do the legwork, and have not found a .904. Please tell us where to get them. That is what I would have bought if I could have found them. I believe that some cam companies might refer to a .904, but I would like to know who makes them, or if they are just Mopar lifters after all. |
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Airdrie AMX
AMC Nut Joined: Aug/08/2010 Location: Alberta, Canada Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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FYI, I recently bought some solid lifters from howards with the EDM hole for amc, not sure who manufactures them but they measure. 9038" if that's of any help. Not hydraulic i know but a good sized lifter in my opinion. Ive used 3 Comp cam &lifter kits as i'm sure thousands of others have without issue, it wasn't until this current build right now that I have ever bothered to measure them.
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72 amx javelin 401 4spd
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RAZER
AMC Apprentice Joined: Jun/14/2014 Location: AZ Status: Offline Points: 147 |
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Sonic: go to Clay Smith Cams web page
they list AMC lifters at .904, they also show lifters for Mopar at .903 then call them on the phone and ask where their lifters are made. hopefully they are made in the USA
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